Comments on: Iran: Text of Mousavi Statement to Basiji (25 November) http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/ Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:28:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Megan http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15448 Megan Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:43:42 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15448 Pedestrian, “Megan, you’ve visited my blog before and harassed me” Keep dreaming body. You are too pedestrian for me Pedestrian! Pedestrian,

“Megan, you’ve visited my blog before and harassed me”

Keep dreaming body.

You are too pedestrian for me Pedestrian!

]]> By: Samuel http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15343 Samuel Mon, 30 Nov 2009 02:07:55 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15343 Bill Davit, "It is quite a laugh when they bandy around the notion that the first supreme leader was so liberal." Agreed that is the message that the Green Leadership keeps feeding us every day. I don't believe that anyone will ever have the power that the Ayatollah Khomeini posessed. He was a historic figure who brought about a Revolution in Islam long before he brought about a Revolution in Iran. The Guard Corps does have a great deal of influence these days but they will never become a modern day version of the Ottoman Janissaries. Keep in mind that it is the SL who appoints and dismisses the top leadership of the IRGC. It is he who named Jafari head of the Guards and Naghdi head of the Basij (despite the fact that the latter appointment probably displeased AN) and he could dismiss them tomorrow without any problem. Secondly the Janissaries became a rigid, anti-technology, anti-progress organization. They wouldn't even adopt the bayonet because it was a western invention. Contrast this with the role that the IRGC has played in advancing military technology including protecting the Nuclear assets. Bill Davit,

“It is quite a laugh when they bandy around the notion that the first supreme leader was so liberal.”

Agreed that is the message that the Green Leadership keeps feeding us every day.

I don’t believe that anyone will ever have the power that the Ayatollah Khomeini posessed. He was a historic figure who brought about a Revolution in Islam long before he brought about a Revolution in Iran.

The Guard Corps does have a great deal of influence these days but they will never become a modern day version of the Ottoman Janissaries. Keep in mind that it is the SL who appoints and dismisses the top leadership of the IRGC. It is he who named Jafari head of the Guards and Naghdi head of the Basij (despite the fact that the latter appointment probably displeased AN) and he could dismiss them tomorrow without any problem.

Secondly the Janissaries became a rigid, anti-technology, anti-progress organization. They wouldn’t even adopt the bayonet because it was a western invention. Contrast this with the role that the IRGC has played in advancing military technology including protecting the Nuclear assets.

]]> By: Bill Davit http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15326 Bill Davit Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:52:28 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15326 Samuel, It is quite a laugh when they bandy around the notion that the first supreme leader was so liberal. They seem to forget that he was the one responsible for the death of thousands of liberals once they outived their usefulness. I agree he was much more hardline but the difference today is where the power lies. I believe the Supreme Leader still holds tremendous power but the reality is it's quite watered down respective to the Influence of the IRGC. I don't think years ago you could have seen such overt control by the IRGC as we do today. My point on Gorbachev was not to compare him to Stalin or Lenin. It was to portray a devote communist who started to have second thoughts about the utopia of Soviety socialism. It was obvisously something he had a belief for but it was the peoples voice that obviously caused rethink his stance. I believe we are seeing that within Iran not only within the green movement but with the clergy and the rank and file of the government itself. Thx Bill Samuel,

It is quite a laugh when they bandy around the notion that the first supreme leader was so liberal. They seem to forget that he was the one responsible for the death of thousands of liberals once they outived their usefulness. I agree he was much more hardline but the difference today is where the power lies. I believe the Supreme Leader still holds tremendous power but the reality is it’s quite watered down respective to the Influence of the IRGC. I don’t think years ago you could have seen such overt control by the IRGC as we do today.

My point on Gorbachev was not to compare him to Stalin or Lenin. It was to portray a devote communist who started to have second thoughts about the utopia of Soviety socialism. It was obvisously something he had a belief for but it was the peoples voice that obviously caused rethink his stance. I believe we are seeing that within Iran not only within the green movement but with the clergy and the rank and file of the government itself.

Thx
Bill

]]> By: Pedestrian http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15323 Pedestrian Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:16:36 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15323 Megan, you've visited my blog before and harassed me. So I have nothing else to say to you. As for my geographical location, anyone on the blog that has asked has gotten the EXACT details so I'm not sure what it is about it that has sparked your interest continuously. Yes, the student activists that were arrested were some of my classmates. And Yes, I make a note that as only ONE part of this bigger movement, many of them are not for immediate regime change. Yes, I started the blog in Iran and now write when I am inside and also when I am out. If you claim that I can't speak for all Iranians, which i certainly do not claim to, I would appreciate it that at least you learn a lesson or two from your own rule book. The only thing that scares me more than Ahmadinejad is expats like you: "Or you are the Hejab police, hajji khanoom (rolling eyes gave you away)" ... Wow. I could say a lot more, but I won't. This movement is about being INCLUSIVE. It's about trying to bring together people from various ends of the spectrum to agree on a set of common causes without blowing each others brains. It's also about pragmatism and assessing the possibilities. That is what we are all striving for, and extremists on all camps trying to avoid. Samuel, that is not the reason we are scared of Naghdi. Things like this: http://iranfacts.blogspot.com/2009/10/convicted-torturer-appointed-as.html is what really frightens us. Megan, you’ve visited my blog before and harassed me. So I have nothing else to say to you. As for my geographical location, anyone on the blog that has asked has gotten the EXACT details so I’m not sure what it is about it that has sparked your interest continuously. Yes, the student activists that were arrested were some of my classmates. And Yes, I make a note that as only ONE part of this bigger movement, many of them are not for immediate regime change. Yes, I started the blog in Iran and now write when I am inside and also when I am out. If you claim that I can’t speak for all Iranians, which i certainly do not claim to, I would appreciate it that at least you learn a lesson or two from your own rule book.
The only thing that scares me more than Ahmadinejad is expats like you: “Or you are the Hejab police, hajji khanoom (rolling eyes gave you away)” …
Wow.
I could say a lot more, but I won’t. This movement is about being INCLUSIVE. It’s about trying to bring together people from various ends of the spectrum to agree on a set of common causes without blowing each others brains. It’s also about pragmatism and assessing the possibilities. That is what we are all striving for, and extremists on all camps trying to avoid.

Samuel, that is not the reason we are scared of Naghdi. Things like this:
http://iranfacts.blogspot.com/2009/10/convicted-torturer-appointed-as.html

is what really frightens us.

]]> By: Samuel http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15322 Samuel Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:05:39 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15322 How the anti-Arab, anti-Muslim crowd must despise Naghdi. Not only is he a devout Muslim but he is part Arab having been born in Najaf. It's a perfect combination feeding into all their prejudices. If for no other reason I am so glad that he was named to head the Basij by the SL. Or is it the other way around since I keep reading how it is the Pasdaran that tells the SL what to do these days? Yes that must be it. How the anti-Arab, anti-Muslim crowd must despise Naghdi. Not only is he a devout Muslim but he is part Arab having been born in Najaf. It’s a perfect combination feeding into all their prejudices. If for no other reason I am so glad that he was named to head the Basij by the SL.

Or is it the other way around since I keep reading how it is the Pasdaran that tells the SL what to do these days? Yes that must be it.

]]> By: Samuel http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15320 Samuel Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:53:04 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15320 Megan, I think I figured out what the other 1% is. We all know now how filthy and smelly the basiji are but it is only thanks to you that we know that all the millions in that smelly organization are all VERY, VERY FAT as well. Megan,

I think I figured out what the other 1% is. We all know now how filthy and smelly the basiji are but it is only thanks to you that we know that all the millions in that smelly organization are all VERY, VERY FAT as well.

]]> By: Megan http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15268 Megan Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:53:41 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15268 Cyrus, Thank you for sharing your story. "Me & you are on 99% of the pages" Do you mean you are in agreement with me 99% of the time? If so, I still have some work to do to get the remaining 1%. Just kidding. Cyrus,

Thank you for sharing your story.

“Me & you are on 99% of the pages”

Do you mean you are in agreement with me 99% of the time? If so, I still have some work to do to get the remaining 1%. Just kidding.

]]> By: Cyrus http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15254 Cyrus Sun, 29 Nov 2009 05:59:21 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15254 Getting back to the main subjest I thin most Iranian ppl are smart enough to know what's right for them and we must consider this, if we want secular democracy or republic which means people shaiping the political system, the leader must be the follower (another meaning for representative) of his supporters reflecting people's interests, otherwise people should have the power to replace the leader and even the political system. We must first break the IRGC a part in all different frons, inside or outsied Iran, before we can change the regime Getting back to the main subjest
I thin most Iranian ppl are smart enough to know what’s right for them and we must consider this, if we want secular democracy or republic which means people shaiping the political system, the leader must be the follower (another meaning for representative) of his supporters reflecting people’s interests, otherwise people should have the power to replace the leader and even the political system.
We must first break the IRGC a part in all different frons, inside or outsied Iran, before we can change the regime

]]> By: Cyrus http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15253 Cyrus Sun, 29 Nov 2009 05:47:28 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15253 Continue) I assume, Mousavi and many other regime supporters want regime change, too. Maybe he is keeping it a secret and that's the only way to stay alive and free while opposing and leading the opposition As a matter of fact, Mousavi is not leading people at all !!!! People created mousavi and are leading him, he is a follower of the peope Iranians anger baloone from 30 years of IR regime was bubbled up growing, Khatami released some pressure as much as regime could afford. Ahmadinejad's 1st term, trippled the size of the bubble to the point it was ready to be burst, Mousavi wasn't the type of characters they would evr allow to become a president, specially after seeing how he was getting emotional by people's support, no way. So, when he lost the election, many who even didn't vote for him took advantage of the situation and you knw the rest Also Iranian people are very secretive, they chant Iranian Repuublic, call for separation of religion from government and then some suggest they want reform not regime change Come on, use your brain, a democratic / Republic regime, is not Islamic Republic, once you take out Islam from IR, what you need is a whole new political system, all IR institutions must be eleminated and replaced. W/ new gov w/its own coconstitution,al laws, etc IRGC & Basij for example, the backbones of the regime, will not have any use in a democratic system, because one was created to protect Khomein & co (IRGC) and another to recruit hight school students to carry suicide missions and other services during the Iran-Iraq war (Basij) Basij has been pain in the ass of Iranians since the endo of the war actually, they've done nothing but harrasing people there I left Iran as a teen in the late 90's, remember just because of dressing up stylish hollywood style as they used to call it, have long style hair and being a player, I used to gett arrested, beaten up. By the basij and IRGC based forces (Komiteh, Yegan Vijeh, amre-be-maroof, etc) or harrassed on weakly bases, most of my friends the same. In return, we had to organize our gangs to beat up basijies ;) I was harasses many times by the basijies, but new how to get a way w/them most of the time, since I knew many of their names, all I had to do was to lie to be causin of one of their top thougs or talk their own language (like Mousavi is doing) no logics or human language would work on them, very hardheade, only using Islamic terms, refering to Ali, Khomein and other crap they belong to would signal on their num brains I used to know a few of them before & after they became basijies. The brainwashing is to powerful to go away so easily. The guys I used to sell russian vodka to, 2 months after joining the Basij, wouldn'd drink and even wouldn't listen to Persian music anymore. Basijies become ZOMBIES, don't even know their own brothers anymore. One example was 2 identical twin brother we grew up in the same neighborhood, one was sharper, more intelligent and social, the other one shy & slower, before one brother (the shy) joining the basij for educational advantages, their own mother used to be mistaken how similar in look, bhavior and even the way they talked, I didn't see them for few months, one day saw the cool brother who didn't join the basij sitting on their door steps, when he saw me he geated me and we set talking, he was lucky to have highe scoress and accepted to university easily, his brother decided to take shortcut & joined the basij (guaranteed acceptance) and he was so ashamed to tel me that, I asked him were he was and he said he was in the Musque, I said what??!! It was a shock, because it's very rare to see the post revolution generations going to Musque during normal days, most iranians would never or only few times a year go to musques, it's like a dihouner to go to musque for most city kids Anyway, while we were talking, the brother returned, he was a totally different animal, wearinf a long plain shirt hanging on his basiji style pants, basiji style hair, unshaved face looking at his twin brother & responding to him as he was a strainger or a sort of racist looking at a diff race. The brother said, "I kept telling the asshole, don't join the shit, but he was hard headed and did, my old father had heart attack a few times seeing his ass like this" Another members was a kid in during class in my 9tj grade, he was a nerd and shy type of kid Continue)
I assume, Mousavi and many other regime supporters want regime change, too. Maybe he is keeping it a secret and that’s the only way to stay alive and free while opposing and leading the opposition
As a matter of fact, Mousavi is not leading people at all !!!! People created mousavi and are leading him, he is a follower of the peope
Iranians anger baloone from 30 years of IR regime was bubbled up growing, Khatami released some pressure as much as regime could afford. Ahmadinejad’s 1st term, trippled the size of the bubble to the point it was ready to be burst, Mousavi wasn’t the type of characters they would evr allow to become a president, specially after seeing how he was getting emotional by people’s support, no way.
So, when he lost the election, many who even didn’t vote for him took advantage of the situation and you knw the rest
Also Iranian people are very secretive, they chant Iranian Repuublic, call for separation of religion from government and then some suggest they want reform not regime change
Come on, use your brain, a democratic / Republic regime, is not Islamic Republic, once you take out Islam from IR, what you need is a whole new political system, all IR institutions must be eleminated and replaced. W/ new gov w/its own coconstitution,al laws, etc
IRGC & Basij for example, the backbones of the regime, will not have any use in a democratic system, because one was created to protect Khomein & co (IRGC) and another to recruit hight school students to carry suicide missions and other services during the Iran-Iraq war (Basij)
Basij has been pain in the ass of Iranians since the endo of the war actually, they’ve done nothing but harrasing people there
I left Iran as a teen in the late 90’s, remember just because of dressing up stylish hollywood style as they used to call it, have long style hair and being a player, I used to gett arrested, beaten up. By the basij and IRGC based forces (Komiteh, Yegan Vijeh, amre-be-maroof, etc) or harrassed on weakly bases, most of my friends the same. In return, we had to organize our gangs to beat up basijies ;) I was harasses many times by the basijies, but new how to get a way w/them most of the time, since I knew many of their names, all I had to do was to lie to be causin of one of their top thougs or talk their own language (like Mousavi is doing) no logics or human language would work on them, very hardheade, only using Islamic terms, refering to Ali, Khomein and other crap they belong to would signal on their num brains
I used to know a few of them before & after they became basijies. The brainwashing is to powerful to go away so easily. The guys I used to sell russian vodka to, 2 months after joining the Basij, wouldn’d drink and even wouldn’t listen to Persian music anymore. Basijies become ZOMBIES, don’t even know their own brothers anymore.
One example was 2 identical twin brother we grew up in the same neighborhood, one was sharper, more intelligent and social, the other one shy & slower, before one brother (the shy) joining the basij for educational advantages, their own mother used to be mistaken how similar in look, bhavior and even the way they talked, I didn’t see them for few months, one day saw the cool brother who didn’t join the basij sitting on their door steps, when he saw me he geated me and we set talking, he was lucky to have highe scoress and accepted to university easily, his brother decided to take shortcut & joined the basij (guaranteed acceptance) and he was so ashamed to tel me that, I asked him were he was and he said he was in the Musque, I said what??!! It was a shock, because it’s very rare to see the post revolution generations going to Musque during normal days, most iranians would never or only few times a year go to musques, it’s like a dihouner to go to musque for most city kids
Anyway, while we were talking, the brother returned, he was a totally different animal, wearinf a long plain shirt hanging on his basiji style pants, basiji style hair, unshaved face looking at his twin brother & responding to him as he was a strainger or a sort of racist looking at a diff race.
The brother said, “I kept telling the asshole, don’t join the shit, but he was hard headed and did, my old father had heart attack a few times seeing his ass like this”
Another members was a kid in during class in my 9tj grade, he was a nerd and shy type of kid

]]> By: Cyrus http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15252 Cyrus Sun, 29 Nov 2009 04:31:22 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15252 Megan, Me & you are on 99% of the pages I read most of all comments and have a few things to point out some of you may have covered already 1st of all, I don't think the Mousavi type of political idealogies (or his cover idealogy) is what people want, but still, he is very helpful. Just this letter, I'm sure will have very positive effect on some of the Basjies You can't convince a fully brainwashed Basiji to bite the hand that feed them in any better language than that, they'd ignore anything he says otherwise, Its totally aligned with the regimechange theories I've been analyzing for years You can't crush a mega mafia brutal armed and well funded regime in one piece, you must first split it in half, make one 1/2 fight another 1/2, then it'll be much easier to bring regime change. To be hounest, I don't buy all peaceful revolution stuff because in dealing with the IRGC controled IIran, you must fight to get the country back, but the most effective violence is the violence within our enemies, regime vs. Regime. Support of the people from one side will lead to a bipolar system 1st & finally 1 side fighting another 2nd never thing you could read a Persian's mind, we are the most secretive people, when Arabs invated Iran, they forced us to speak, read & write only Arabic and even abandon our ancient religion & traditions. Right about the time they thought Persia was fully Arabianized, they got kicked out and Persians even established their own virsion of Islam. Millions of Zoroasterians who pretended as converts to Islam in order to avoid their wives & doughters being slaved by the Arabs, started practicing their religion again (as a historical fact, untill 700 years ago, the beginning of the Safavid dinesty, over 50% of Iranians were Zoroasterians later on forced to convert or killed in several genocides done by the Safavids whom tried to make a 100% shia country) I've seen Iranians very religious always going to musques alcoholic Megan,
Me & you are on 99% of the pages
I read most of all comments and have a few things to point out some of you may have covered already

1st of all, I don’t think the Mousavi type of political idealogies (or his cover idealogy) is what people want, but still, he is very helpful. Just this letter, I’m sure will have very positive effect on some of the Basjies
You can’t convince a fully brainwashed Basiji to bite the hand that feed them in any better language than that, they’d ignore anything he says otherwise,
Its totally aligned with the regimechange theories I’ve been analyzing for years
You can’t crush a mega mafia brutal armed and well funded regime in one piece, you must first split it in half, make one 1/2 fight another 1/2, then it’ll be much easier to bring regime change.
To be hounest, I don’t buy all peaceful revolution stuff because in dealing with the IRGC controled IIran, you must fight to get the country back, but the most effective violence is the violence within our enemies, regime vs. Regime. Support of the people from one side will lead to a bipolar system 1st & finally 1 side fighting another
2nd never thing you could read a Persian’s mind, we are the most secretive people, when Arabs invated Iran, they forced us to speak, read & write only Arabic and even abandon our ancient religion & traditions. Right about the time they thought Persia was fully Arabianized, they got kicked out and Persians even established their own virsion of Islam. Millions of Zoroasterians who pretended as converts to Islam in order to avoid their wives & doughters being slaved by the Arabs, started practicing their religion again (as a historical fact, untill 700 years ago, the beginning of the Safavid dinesty, over 50% of Iranians were Zoroasterians later on forced to convert or killed in several genocides done by the Safavids whom tried to make a 100% shia country)
I’ve seen Iranians very religious always going to musques alcoholic

]]> By: ange paris http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15229 ange paris Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:27:53 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15229 Samuel Not at all ; I think when your are ( or I am ) absent from your country for long time, if you are able to go back there, your heart beat wildly and the first thing you do arriving on the ground of your homeland, it's to kneel down and to kiss it !! and I am not joking ! He was full of rage and bloody furious; one thing made him running and living : " to revange" ; it was terrible !! I couldn't understand your reasons above, as if you spoke in chineese; look at the "people", the power of the nation, without them nobody could be successful; look at this amazing "ocean"!! Samuel
Not at all ; I think when your are ( or I am ) absent from your country for long time, if you are able to go back there, your heart beat wildly and the first thing you do arriving on the ground of your homeland, it’s to kneel down and to kiss it !! and I am not joking ! He was full of rage and bloody furious; one thing made him running and living : ” to revange” ; it was terrible !!
I couldn’t understand your reasons above, as if you spoke in chineese; look at the “people”, the power of the nation, without them nobody could be successful; look at this amazing “ocean”!!

]]> By: Samuel http://enduringamerica.com/2009/11/26/iran-text-of-mousavi-statement-to-basiji-25-november/comment-page-1/#comment-15222 Samuel Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:32:55 +0000 http://enduringamerica.com/?p=22161#comment-15222 ange, I've explained my support for the Revolution before but certainly part of it has to do with the reasons outlined above. But let me ask you why did you find the "nothing" quote so offensive? Isn't it because you think that the Ayatollah Khomeini cared nothing about Iran only Islam? ange,

I’ve explained my support for the Revolution before but certainly part of it has to do with the reasons outlined above.

But let me ask you why did you find the “nothing” quote so offensive? Isn’t it because you think that the Ayatollah Khomeini cared nothing about Iran only Islam?

]]>