Sunday
Jan172010
Latest from Iran (17 January): Setting Aside Diversions
Sunday, January 17, 2010 at 22:52
2250 GMT: The Regime Sacrifices Mortazavi (on US Television). What a way to close the evening. In an interview on CNN tonight, Tehran University academic Seyed Mohammad Marandi effectively gave up former Tehran Prosecutor General Saeed Mortazavi as the man responsible for the detainee abuses and deaths at Kahrizak Prison. We've got the video and a snap analysis.
1945 GMT: Don't Look Now But.... Former 1st Vice President and Presidential ally Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai is handing out wisdom, according to Press TV: "The Islamic system's adherence to keep an 'unbreakable connection' between its legitimacy and popularity is the key to its survival."
Don't want to rain on this supremacy parade, Mr R-M, but given recent developments (see 1035 GMT and 1100 GMT), you want to think about your own survival before pronouncing on that of the Islamic Republic.
1935 GMT: Repent! Rah-e-Sabz reports supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi in Borujerd in western Iran are being summoned by the Ministry of Intelligence and asked to sign statements of repentance.
1845 GMT: Zia Nabavi, a "starred" (monitored) student and spokesman for the Right to Education Defense Council, has been given a 15-year jail term combined with 74 lashes. The sentence consists of ten years for association with the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MKO), three years for gathering and collusion to undermine national security; one year for spreading propaganda against the regime; one year for disturbing the public peace; and 74 lashes for antagonizing public opinion.
During his trial, Mr. Nabavi strenuously denied association with the MKO, saying he was being sentenced for the presence of a few of his family members at MKO’s Ashraf base in Iraq. According to Mr. Nabavi’s lawyer, the main charge was participation in a street march on June 15.
1802 GMT: A new website has been created by journalists and human rights activists to bring attention to the cases of less prominent post-election detainees.
1800 GMT: We've posted the video of the concluding part of Dr Javad Etaat's powerful criticism of the regime which was aired on Iranian state media this week.
1720 GMT: The files of 17 The files of 17detained killed protesters have been sent by Tehran's Chief Prosecutor to the criminal court of Tehran.
1705 GMT: Two more members of the Freedom Movement of Iran, Solmaz Alimoradi and Farid Taheri, were arrested today. The regime has targeted the group with a series of arrests on and after Ashura (27 December).
(An activist is now reporting that four members were arrested, adding the names of Mamood Naimpoor and Khosro Ghashghai.)
1700 GMT: Oh, Mahmoud, You Crazy Guy. Who needs to worry about an internal crisis when you can do this to highlight the evil wrought by others upon Iran? "A task force assigned by Iran's president has begun their work in estimating the amount of damage inflicted on the Iranian nation during the Second World War."
1645 GMT: Targeting Mortazavi. Not a good omen for Saeed Mortazavi: Press TV's website headlines, "Ex-Tehran prosecutor should stand 'trial'". The article carries Mortazavi's denial that he was responsible for detainees abuses in Kahrizak Prison, taken from his comments to Fars News, but closes with this stinger:
A total of 55 members of Parliament, led by Sorouri, have written to demand that Mortazavi be brought to court.
1445 GMT: Death Sentence Propaganda. We reported earlier (0823 GMT) that a Hossein Mahmoodi, who had supposedly been sentenced to death as "mohareb" (warrior against God), was the nephew of Hojatoleslam Jafar Montazeri, the head of Iran's Administrative Justice Court.
Only one catch here: Hojatolislam Montazeri is saying he does not have a nephew named Hossein Mahmoodi.
So, if that is true, who is spreading the lie?
1420 GMT: Student activist Majid Dorri has received an 11-year jail sentence.
1328 GMT: Member of Parliament Ali Motahhari (see 1035 GMT) has called for Mir Hossein Mousavi to be allowed into debates on the post-election situation.
1325 GMT: The Mothers of Mourning Persist. A week after their protest was disrupted by 33 arrests, the Mothers of Mourning and their supporters gathered again in Laleh Park yesterday, chanting, "You can occupy Laleh Park, but not our country."
1205 GMT: Another Reformist Put Away. Opposition websites report that senior reformist and former member of Parliament Mohsen Safai Farahani has been sentenced to six years in jail.
1150 GMT: A Newspaper Offensive Against the Regime? If this is interpreted accurately, the "challenge within" to the regime seems to be moving up a notch.
Ayande News has published an analysis by a senior official which, painting a bleak picture of the post-election situation, indirectly blames misjudgments by the Supreme Leader and a disregard for Constitution in siding with “extremists and rogues”. The unnamed official asks where the regime is headed, given the gap between people and Ayatollah Khamenei and the stagnation of the regime and Government.
In Alef News, Mohammad Hassan Haeri Shirazi, the son of Ayatollah Haeri Shirazi, asks whether the intention is to establish an absolute Islamic state or a one-party regime. He criticises the Supreme Leader for manipulating elections, causing a deterioration of democracy and a move towards an oppressive regime.
1100 GMT: P.S. And Khabar Online also has this parting shot of news for Ahmadinejad aide Rahim-Mashai: Iranian state media kept him off TV screens during recent public appearances.
1035 GMT: Ahmadinejad's Buddy v. The Larijanis? We noted earlier (0800 GMT) that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's close ally Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai has been taking potshots at member of Parliament Ali Motahhari, the brother-in-law of Ali Larijani). Well, if true, here is another front in the battle, offered by Khabar Online (which, remember, is a publication connected with Ali Larijani):
0828 GMT: Not Me. Former Tehran Prosecutor General Saeed Mortazavi has rejected the Parliamentary report that holds him accountable for the post-election abuses at Kahrizak Prison.
0823 GMT: The Death Penalty and the Regime. Amir Kabir Newsletter claims that Hossein Mahmoodi, the nephew of Hojatoleslam Jafar Montazeri, the head of Iran's Administrative Justice Court, is amongst a number of Ashura protesters who have been marked out for execution.
0817 GMT: Detention Update. As the regime tries to break protests with more arrests, there are claims that Eshrat Abad Prison could become a "second Kahrizak". Kahrizak Prison was site of post-election detainee abuses and at least three deaths before it was closed on the orders of the Supreme Leader.
0815 GMT: A "corrected" issue of the weekly newspaper Hemmat has been printed after the publication was banned, apparently for insulting Hashemi Rafsanjani.
0810 GMT: No "Mohareb". Amidst Government threats to try demonstrators for the crime of "mohareb" (war against God), more than 60 journalists and human rights activists have signed an open letter denouncing the threat.
0800 GMT: Indeed, the important issue may not be just the Government's reaction to protests (see 0730 GMT) but to its challengers "within". Consider this provocative statement from President Ahmadinejad's ally and Chief of Staff, Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai.
No real shocker that Rahim-Mashai would trot out the line that American and Israeli denials of responsibility in the assassination of Professor Massoud Ali-Mohammadi "are revealing". The intriguing passage, instead, is Rahim-Mashai's allegation that high-profile member of Parliament (and brother-in-law of Ali Larijani) Ali Motahhari has tried to diminish the offences of riot leaders with his criticisms of the Government. So Rahim-Mashai's assurance that legal prosecution is underway is not just a slap-down to the Green movement but to Mottahari.
0730 GMT: Two weeks to go until 11 days of celebration begin, marking the anniversary of the 1979 Revolution, and the political manoeuvring continues. Since the protest and counter-protest of Ashura (27 and 30 December), the public scenes have been less dramatic, but the chatter and preparations continue. Those preparations may be supported by the symbol of the death of Professor Massoud Ali-Mohammadi this week: we have two pieces from Ahmad Shirzad on the "political assassination" and on the drama of Ali-Mohammadi's funeral.
Most of the Western media, however, is diverted today from these events. The Saturday talks of the "5+1" powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China) on Iran's nuclear programme were never going to produce any outcome, but just their occurrence is enough for reporters to fill up columns with the non-development. The Washington Post headlines, "Major powers reach no deal on new sanctions on Iran over its nuclear program", while The New York Times tries to rescue a bit of significance, "6 Major Powers Move Closer to Considering More Iran Sanctions".
Inside Iran, the attention is on the Government's approach to protests. Prominent cleric and politician Mohammad Reyshahri has caused a stir by breaking from "hard-line" supporters of the regime, condemning extremism and neglect in dealing with post-election demonstrations.
Reyshahri --- Supervisor of Iranian Pilgrims, a former representative of the Supreme Leader and former Minister of Intelligence --- declared, “It is no accomplishment to turn a martyr’s family into supporters of a coup. Transforming coup organizers into martyrs is the real accomplishment.” He added, “We must manage things so that if someone supports Velayat-e Faghih (Supreme Leadership of an expert cleric) only 10 percent and is against it 90 percent, we add to that 10 percent rather than completely destroying that 10 percent.”
NEW Latest Iran Video: Marandi on CNN on Detainee Abuses “Mortazavi to Blame” (17 January)
NEW Iran: The Ali-Mohammadi Case “A Political Assassination”
NEW Iran: The Ali-Mohammadi Funeral “The Stolen Coffin”
UPDATED Iran Video & Translation: Dr Etaat’s Opposition On State Media (14 January — Parts 3-5)
UPDATED Iran Video & Translation: Dr Etaat’s Opposition On State Media (14 January — Parts 1 and 2)
NEW Iran: The 15 Points of “The Secular Green Movement” (14 January)
Latest Iran News (16 January): Ripples
1945 GMT: Don't Look Now But.... Former 1st Vice President and Presidential ally Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai is handing out wisdom, according to Press TV: "The Islamic system's adherence to keep an 'unbreakable connection' between its legitimacy and popularity is the key to its survival."
Don't want to rain on this supremacy parade, Mr R-M, but given recent developments (see 1035 GMT and 1100 GMT), you want to think about your own survival before pronouncing on that of the Islamic Republic.
1935 GMT: Repent! Rah-e-Sabz reports supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi in Borujerd in western Iran are being summoned by the Ministry of Intelligence and asked to sign statements of repentance.
1845 GMT: Zia Nabavi, a "starred" (monitored) student and spokesman for the Right to Education Defense Council, has been given a 15-year jail term combined with 74 lashes. The sentence consists of ten years for association with the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MKO), three years for gathering and collusion to undermine national security; one year for spreading propaganda against the regime; one year for disturbing the public peace; and 74 lashes for antagonizing public opinion.
During his trial, Mr. Nabavi strenuously denied association with the MKO, saying he was being sentenced for the presence of a few of his family members at MKO’s Ashraf base in Iraq. According to Mr. Nabavi’s lawyer, the main charge was participation in a street march on June 15.
1802 GMT: A new website has been created by journalists and human rights activists to bring attention to the cases of less prominent post-election detainees.
1800 GMT: We've posted the video of the concluding part of Dr Javad Etaat's powerful criticism of the regime which was aired on Iranian state media this week.
1720 GMT: The files of 17 The files of 17
1705 GMT: Two more members of the Freedom Movement of Iran, Solmaz Alimoradi and Farid Taheri, were arrested today. The regime has targeted the group with a series of arrests on and after Ashura (27 December).
(An activist is now reporting that four members were arrested, adding the names of Mamood Naimpoor and Khosro Ghashghai.)
1700 GMT: Oh, Mahmoud, You Crazy Guy. Who needs to worry about an internal crisis when you can do this to highlight the evil wrought by others upon Iran? "A task force assigned by Iran's president has begun their work in estimating the amount of damage inflicted on the Iranian nation during the Second World War."
1645 GMT: Targeting Mortazavi. Not a good omen for Saeed Mortazavi: Press TV's website headlines, "Ex-Tehran prosecutor should stand 'trial'". The article carries Mortazavi's denial that he was responsible for detainees abuses in Kahrizak Prison, taken from his comments to Fars News, but closes with this stinger:
Parviz Sorouri, the lawmaker who heads the panel, told Mehr News Agency that the report was "based on undeniable evidence and documents" gathered by his team. The lawmaker insisted a tribunal should be established to consider the panel's report. "Mr. Mortazavi should also present his evidence in this court," Sorouri said.
A total of 55 members of Parliament, led by Sorouri, have written to demand that Mortazavi be brought to court.
1445 GMT: Death Sentence Propaganda. We reported earlier (0823 GMT) that a Hossein Mahmoodi, who had supposedly been sentenced to death as "mohareb" (warrior against God), was the nephew of Hojatoleslam Jafar Montazeri, the head of Iran's Administrative Justice Court.
Only one catch here: Hojatolislam Montazeri is saying he does not have a nephew named Hossein Mahmoodi.
So, if that is true, who is spreading the lie?
1420 GMT: Student activist Majid Dorri has received an 11-year jail sentence.
1328 GMT: Member of Parliament Ali Motahhari (see 1035 GMT) has called for Mir Hossein Mousavi to be allowed into debates on the post-election situation.
1325 GMT: The Mothers of Mourning Persist. A week after their protest was disrupted by 33 arrests, the Mothers of Mourning and their supporters gathered again in Laleh Park yesterday, chanting, "You can occupy Laleh Park, but not our country."
1205 GMT: Another Reformist Put Away. Opposition websites report that senior reformist and former member of Parliament Mohsen Safai Farahani has been sentenced to six years in jail.
1150 GMT: A Newspaper Offensive Against the Regime? If this is interpreted accurately, the "challenge within" to the regime seems to be moving up a notch.
Ayande News has published an analysis by a senior official which, painting a bleak picture of the post-election situation, indirectly blames misjudgments by the Supreme Leader and a disregard for Constitution in siding with “extremists and rogues”. The unnamed official asks where the regime is headed, given the gap between people and Ayatollah Khamenei and the stagnation of the regime and Government.
In Alef News, Mohammad Hassan Haeri Shirazi, the son of Ayatollah Haeri Shirazi, asks whether the intention is to establish an absolute Islamic state or a one-party regime. He criticises the Supreme Leader for manipulating elections, causing a deterioration of democracy and a move towards an oppressive regime.
1100 GMT: P.S. And Khabar Online also has this parting shot of news for Ahmadinejad aide Rahim-Mashai: Iranian state media kept him off TV screens during recent public appearances.
1035 GMT: Ahmadinejad's Buddy v. The Larijanis? We noted earlier (0800 GMT) that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's close ally Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai has been taking potshots at member of Parliament Ali Motahhari, the brother-in-law of Ali Larijani). Well, if true, here is another front in the battle, offered by Khabar Online (which, remember, is a publication connected with Ali Larijani):
In [a] gathering of the members of Ahmadinejad election headquarters held in the grand hall of [the] Interior Ministry, his backers chanted slogans against Mir Hossein Mousavi, opposition leader, as well as Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, Ahmadinejad's chief of staff and his top aide.
According to Khabar Online correspondent who exclusively reported on the issue, the event took place at 8 to 12 a.m. Friday and was attended by the officials of Ahmadinejad election headquarters. Among them officials from the provinces of Azerbaijan and Mazandaran made speeches and after a known cleric, Ayatollah Haeri Shirazi delivered the lecture, [the] Iranian President...made a speech.
During his speech, the government supporters shouted "Death to Mousavi!" But interestingly when the ceremony came to an end several attendants chanted slogans against Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, Ahmadinejad's close aide: "Mashaei Shame on You! Leave Ahmadi Alone!" and "Ahmadi Replace Mashaei!" They began to shout when the attendants were leaving the hall.
0828 GMT: Not Me. Former Tehran Prosecutor General Saeed Mortazavi has rejected the Parliamentary report that holds him accountable for the post-election abuses at Kahrizak Prison.
0823 GMT: The Death Penalty and the Regime. Amir Kabir Newsletter claims that Hossein Mahmoodi, the nephew of Hojatoleslam Jafar Montazeri, the head of Iran's Administrative Justice Court, is amongst a number of Ashura protesters who have been marked out for execution.
0817 GMT: Detention Update. As the regime tries to break protests with more arrests, there are claims that Eshrat Abad Prison could become a "second Kahrizak". Kahrizak Prison was site of post-election detainee abuses and at least three deaths before it was closed on the orders of the Supreme Leader.
0815 GMT: A "corrected" issue of the weekly newspaper Hemmat has been printed after the publication was banned, apparently for insulting Hashemi Rafsanjani.
0810 GMT: No "Mohareb". Amidst Government threats to try demonstrators for the crime of "mohareb" (war against God), more than 60 journalists and human rights activists have signed an open letter denouncing the threat.
0800 GMT: Indeed, the important issue may not be just the Government's reaction to protests (see 0730 GMT) but to its challengers "within". Consider this provocative statement from President Ahmadinejad's ally and Chief of Staff, Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai.
No real shocker that Rahim-Mashai would trot out the line that American and Israeli denials of responsibility in the assassination of Professor Massoud Ali-Mohammadi "are revealing". The intriguing passage, instead, is Rahim-Mashai's allegation that high-profile member of Parliament (and brother-in-law of Ali Larijani) Ali Motahhari has tried to diminish the offences of riot leaders with his criticisms of the Government. So Rahim-Mashai's assurance that legal prosecution is underway is not just a slap-down to the Green movement but to Mottahari.
0730 GMT: Two weeks to go until 11 days of celebration begin, marking the anniversary of the 1979 Revolution, and the political manoeuvring continues. Since the protest and counter-protest of Ashura (27 and 30 December), the public scenes have been less dramatic, but the chatter and preparations continue. Those preparations may be supported by the symbol of the death of Professor Massoud Ali-Mohammadi this week: we have two pieces from Ahmad Shirzad on the "political assassination" and on the drama of Ali-Mohammadi's funeral.
Most of the Western media, however, is diverted today from these events. The Saturday talks of the "5+1" powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China) on Iran's nuclear programme were never going to produce any outcome, but just their occurrence is enough for reporters to fill up columns with the non-development. The Washington Post headlines, "Major powers reach no deal on new sanctions on Iran over its nuclear program", while The New York Times tries to rescue a bit of significance, "6 Major Powers Move Closer to Considering More Iran Sanctions".
Inside Iran, the attention is on the Government's approach to protests. Prominent cleric and politician Mohammad Reyshahri has caused a stir by breaking from "hard-line" supporters of the regime, condemning extremism and neglect in dealing with post-election demonstrations.
Reyshahri --- Supervisor of Iranian Pilgrims, a former representative of the Supreme Leader and former Minister of Intelligence --- declared, “It is no accomplishment to turn a martyr’s family into supporters of a coup. Transforming coup organizers into martyrs is the real accomplishment.” He added, “We must manage things so that if someone supports Velayat-e Faghih (Supreme Leadership of an expert cleric) only 10 percent and is against it 90 percent, we add to that 10 percent rather than completely destroying that 10 percent.”
tagged Alef News, Ali Larijani, Ali Mottahari, Amir Kabir Newsletter, Ayande News, Ayatollah Haeri Shirazi, Esfandiar Rahim-Mashai, Eshrat Abad Prison, Fars News, Hashemi Rafsanjani, Hemmat, Hojatoleslam Jafar Montazeri, Hossein Mahmoodi, Iran, Iran Elections 2009, Kahriak Prison, Khabar Online, Khosro Ghashgha, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Majid Dorri, Mamood Naimpoor, Masoud Ali Mohammadi, Massoud Ali Mohammadi, Mehr News Agency, Mir Hossein Mousavi, Mohammad Hassan Haeri Shirazi, Mohammad ReyShahri, Mohareb, Mothers of Mourning, Mujahedin-e-Khalq, New York Times, Nuclear Proliferation, Parviz Sorouri, Press TV, Saeed Mortazavi, Washington Post, Zia Nabavi in Middle East & Iran
Reader Comments (55)
Barry,
How do you dare to ask, who the racists are? The Arabs, of course ;-)
Well, the Islamic Solidarity Games were postponed last August "because of swine flu"
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/sport/12-islamic+games+postponed+over+swine+flu+threat--bi-03
And now the IRI has got the gate for putting its nose in other people's business (Yemen). Just replace Persian Gulf by Arabian Gulf and - pouf - solidarity ends up in smoke...
For once I agree with IRI; it's not Arabian gulf but Persian gulf, from the beginning !
In fact the slogan is " don't touch to my country, neither other countries nor IRI " !
There is no solidarity in this important case!
1700 GMT: Oh, Mahmoud, You Crazy Guy. Who needs to worry about an internal crisis when you can do this to highlight the evil wrought by others upon Iran? “A task force assigned by Iran’s president has begun their work in estimating the amount of damage inflicted on the Iranian nation during the Second World War.”
WW2 my favorite war. Destruction! It's a shame that there weren't that many deaths. All that exaggeration. But the next one, World War 3 will be great and the 12th Imam will return. We have a runway and red carpet ready for him.
I'm just a wild and crazy guy: sometimes I say 6 prayers and spit into the wind.
Catherine and Ange Paris,
saretan dard nakonad! I hope to finish this special ASAP, having to search for some older links on my own blog. I will post the url here and send it to the address mentioned by Catherine.
Meanwhile five protesters were sentenced to up to 6 years in prison: http://www.ihrv.org/inf/?p=3555
@ 1720 GMT
Scott, it should read "killed protesters" (not detained), whose files were sent to criminal court.
Thanks,
Arshama
Barry,
"Where are you Samuel? Looks like a bit of racism going on here – but who are the racists ? The Arabs or the Iranians???"
I think the racists are the ones who harass and kill Indian students simply because of the color of their skin. The more I think about it your country would make a perfect fit for the greenie prisoners. The greenies love, nay adore, western culture and they also have little tolerance for the darker stock of humanity.
What do you think? Iranians after all are "Aryans" which is to say "white" so they may avoid the Indian treatment.
Al Arabiya has set up a poll on its English site: How will the current crisis in Iran end?
http://www.alarabiya.net/english/
"The opposition will win" and "The government will suppress the opposition" are dead even ...
Go for Green! :-)
I am really mystified about the whole Persian Gulf vs Arabian Gulf thing. First let me say the Persians definitely won long ago and that is in no danger of changing. Mainstream commentators in America uniformly use Persian Gulf. Quite frankly, we are not that great at geography and when we learn a name, we stick with it. There is no need to worry that Arabs will convince Americans to start saying Arabian Gulf instead.
But why should it matter what foreigners call a place in their foreign language? Why can't the place have different names in the three different languages, Persian, Arabic, and English, and we all just agree that all three refer to the same place?
"During his trial, Mr. Nabavi strenuously denied association with the MKO, saying he was being sentenced for the presence of a few of his family members at MKO’s Ashraf base in Iraq."
"The presense...at MKO's base"??? This makes it sound as if the relatives accidentally stumbled into the MKO base. What happened is this the cheapest housing they could find??? Where they vacationing at the MKO base??? Maybe they enjoyed the amenities and the great food at the wonderful MKO resort.
Why not say outright that his relatives are MKO members/traitors who fought with Saddam against Iran. That doesn't necessarily mean that Mr. Nabavi himself is MKO but it does mean that the MKO connection charge was not created out of thin air.
Rev Magdalen,
"But why should it matter what foreigners call a place in their foreign language? Why can’t the place have different names in the three different languages..."
Simply because the name of a place is intimately tied in to its history and to its control. It matters a great deal if you call a place "Palestine" or "Israel, whether it is the "West Bank" of the Jordan River or "Judea and Samaria", whether a few islands full of sheep in the South Atlantic are called the "Malvinas" or the "Falklands". The Catholics and the Protestants don't even agree whether to call a particular city in Northern Ireland "Derry" or "Londonderry" because it is tied in with the larger issue of Northern Ireland's destiny.
In fact there was even controvery regarding the name "Macedonia". See below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute
"The Macedonia naming dispute refers to the disagreement over the use of the name Macedonia between Greece and the Republic of Macedonia. Greece opposes the post-1991 constitutional name of its northern neighbour, citing historical and territorial concerns resulting from the lack of disambiguation between it and the adjacent Greek region of Macedonia. Greece also objects to the undisambiguated use of the term Macedonian for the neighbouring country's main ethnic group and language."
Rev,
I forgot the most obvious example. Travel through the Basque country of Northern Spain and you will see two names for each city or town, one in Castillian and the other in the Basque native language. Very frequently the Spanish name will have been spray painted over by Basque nationalists and you can only see the Basque name.
Rev.Magdalen
It's the same name but the accent and the prononciation change :
- in persian is : Khalije fars
- in arabic : Al khalij al fars ( I hope I am right ! :-), I have got no idea !)
- in english : persian gulf ! knowing that khalij = gulf
Nobody could change your name !
Samuel
Great knowledge ! Bravo !
Samuel
"The more I think about it your country would make a perfect fit for the greenie prisoners."
It does already !!!! We have many many Iranian Bahais here who have fled persecution in Iran. Of those that I have met, they make a wonderful addition to this country of mine - they are intelligent, gentle and loving people, who practice their religion privately and in peace - without fear. That is how the whole world should be.
Barry
Ange Paris,
Then maybe English speakers should just start calling it "Fars Gulf"! I think we can handle spelling and pronouncing that one, lol!
A lot of these place names came about with history - and were named after the most powerful countries of the time.
Perhaps the Gulf should now be called the US Fifth Fleet Gulf??
Barry
Barry
I agree with your #40 comment ; and disagree with Samuel; as I have always said and it's a question mark for me , how somebody as you, Samuel, with this knowledge, could say this kind of atrocities or support the men like Nagdi or other killers; it's a mystery; please don't answer if not I am obliged to read a texte on Israel- Palestine relationship for hours !
Barry,
"Perhaps the Gulf should now be called the US Fifth Fleet Gulf??"
Let's call it the USS Curtis Gulf, it's shorter...
http://www.sdnn.com/sandiego/2010-01-08/military/uss-curtis-deploys-to-western-pacific-persian-gulf
ange paris,
I'll keep it short, promise.:-)
I respect what you say but Nagdi, Jafari etc. are no more "killers" than Mousavi, Karroubi and Khatami (all strong supporters of the 1988 crackdown) were two decades ago. Now you may say those three have "evolved" but the truth is that they were not brainwashed youngsters back then but mature, intelligent, articulate and devoted pious patriots who knew exactly what they were doing then--defending their country and their religion and their Leader against their very real enemies.
Nagdi and Jafari are about the same age now as the green leaders were in 1988. Why is it so difficult to accept that Nagdi and Jafari are acting in the same spirit or that I and so many others believe them.
I know you may think that the IRI is going to fall next week but, seriously, ask yourself this question: If Nagdi, Jafari or even AN became radical reformists two decades from now would their actions today disqualify them in your eyes from any role in the future of the country?
Barry,
Good for the Bahais I guess they have been treated better than those Indian students who have been harassed and even killed requiring an intervention by the Indian Govt.
"That is how the whole world should be." You've conviced me that is the way your country is--FOR SOME. I guess all are equal there but some are more equal than others.
Samuel
You do have good knowledge - so I am sure you will understand that because a country is Democratic and welcomes immigration, does not mean that individual people cannot be racist. Yes - we have racists, we have thieves, murderers, rapists.
BUT - our State does not sanction these things. These crimes are committed by individuals - not by the State and it's apparatus.
As a very knowledgeable person, can you please enlighten me as to any differences that may exist between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the National Socialist State of Germany in regards to the judicial treatment of Bahais in the first case and the judicial treatment of Jews in the second case?? They appear to me to be very similar - in the manner in which people are imprisoned and executed simply for being of a particular race or religion. I am confused about this.
Barry
Samuel,
I wonder why would "pro Israeli" ( or anti Iranian) papers insist upon the fact that Dr. Mohammadi was related to the Iranian nuclear research !!! thus refute the idea that the government has eliminated him !!?? and further more strongly suggest that Israel is behind this terrorist act !!!! What do they gain from this???
And even if we take the hypothesis that Mosad eliminated Dr. Mohammadi , lets say, because a Quantum physicist of his caliber would make him an even more important adversary in the future scientific field , or .... It'll still be the government's fault .
When a government carries on premeditated terrorist acts , illegal arrests (according to the constitution) , persecutions , tortures, rapes and assassinations of her own people , academics, clerics and prominent politicians ; then she leaves the door wide open for the eager foreign intruders .
As Naj said earlier on , Ahmadinejad ( backed by the whole or a fraction of IRGC) has been the best ally of Israel . And assassinating Dr. Mohammadi would serve both their causes - PREVENTING peace and fishing from the muddled waters.
Believe me Samuel , a free and democratic Iran would be a much wiser friend for your people.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Israeli company admits to selling IT system to Tehran's Chamber of Commerce:
http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=27748
"Lots of Israelis do business with Iran," he added. "From cherry tomatoes to high tech, it's a $250 million trade."
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV for Victory!
Barry,
To put it simply the Nazis exterminated the jews. There is no effort to exterminate the Bahais. You like to compare Iran to Nazi Germany which I believe is grounded in your lack of knowledge about Islam. The most significant characteristic of Nazism was its racism, a jewish person could pledge, in all sincerity, his devotion to Adolf Hitler a thousand times over and still not be spared from the death camps. A jew, a black person, a gypsy etc. were considered inferior from birth by nature of their ethnic or racial identity, obviously a characteristic over which no human being has control.
By comparison even the horrible Spanish Inquisiton allowed jews and muslims to avoid being burned at the stake by converting.
Islam on the other hand is the most anti-racist religion in history. Believers include, whites, blacks, Asians and no discrimination exists wiht regards to race. The black American Muslim Malcolm X actually moderated his previously anti-white views after his journey to Mecca on haj. There he encountered the most racially diverse community of Muslims imaginable.
Islam started as the religion of one particualr group, the Arabs, but in short order it came to be dominated by non-Arabs, especially, Turks and Persians. Today the largest Muslim nation happens to be neither Arab, nor Turkish or Persian but Asian, the Island nation of Indonesia.
I personally do not have any issues with the Bahais but I do not deny that unlike Christians, Jews or Zoroastrians, they do face discrimination in the IRI. I would like to see their treatment improve but I would say that the historic treatment of Bahais probably compares favorably with, say, the historic treatment of
the Aborigines.
By the way nice try at deflecting the issue of attacks on Indians by claiming that there are "individual" "racists". If such were the case then the Indian Govt. would not have seen the need to intervene by warning Australia. As you know the issue was and is that officials did not really care that those "individual racists" were targeting Indians.
Samuel
It looks to me like Iran's "historic treatment of Bahais" is not so historic
From an Indian news site, CITIZENS SPEAK UP FOR BAHAIS IN IRAN
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_citizens-speak-up-for-baha-is-in-iran_1332211
From the same Indian news site, TWO MEN ARRESTED FOR ASSAULTING INDIAN TAXI DRIVER
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_two-men-arrested-for-assaulting-indian-taxi-driver-in-australia_1336065
Elsewhere - Indian High Commissioner Sujatha Singh Sunday asked expatriates not to allow "a few bad elements" to sour the relationship between
India and Australia and said she was in constant touch with the authorities to ensure the safety of the Indian community.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/India-closely-monitoring-well-being-of-expats-in-Australia/articleshow/5457337.cms
In regard to Iran's "historic" treatment of Bahais, you are attempting to defend the indefensible.
Barry