Thursday
Apr292010
Iran Interview: The Diplomat Who Resigned Over the Election
Thursday, April 29, 2010 at 11:05 
The website insideIRAN interviews Mohammad Reza Heidari, the Iranian diplomat in Norway who resigned from his post in December and remained in Oslo:Q: Why did you leave your post at the Iranian embassy in Norway and cut off ties with the Islamic Republic?
A: This did not happen over night. My friends and I followed the events of Iran as diplomats. My colleagues and I always talked about the progress other countries have made and compared that to the situation in Iran. Then we had the June 12 election. Everyone was shocked by the level of cheating.
The Latest from Iran (29 April): New Mousavi Video
On election day, I was in charge of the ballot box at the embassy and I never thought this was going to happen. Large numbers of Iranian expats voted in the election and Moussavi won in our precinct. Then the government in Iran reacted violently to people inside the country who were asking for their votes to be counted. These horrific scenes and seeing for ourselves the government killing our youth on the streets made me resign my post in order to motivate the Iranian people to continue their fight.
Q: Are there people in Iran benefiting from the government but are now against the system out of moral objections to the actions of the government? How large is this group? Are they growing in number?
A. Even the founders of the Islamic Republic, people like [Mir Hossein] Mousavi and [Mehdi] Karroubi who worked in the highest echelons of the system for many years, admit that this is a government that tries to make people dependent on its existence.
Almost all my colleagues reached the same conclusion. They see no future in the path the government has chosen. The vast majority of experts who work for Iran’s foreign policy apparatus have objections to what has been happening. Many of them have fled the country. Some have resigned quietly and some are resigning their posts as we speak. I think more complicated issues will challenge the regime and hopefully, this year will be their final year and the Iranian people will taste freedom.
Q. Is there widespread dissatisfaction only in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or is there widespread dissatisfaction in the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps or the Ministry of Intelligence?
A. This is true about every institution in the government. When they send diplomats on foreign missions, they send us through multiple layers of security screenings. We were among those who served during the Iran—Iraq war. I have friends in the IRGC, the Basij, the Ministry of Intelligence, Iran’s radio and television, and other places who are against the government. They have to cooperate with the government because if they do otherwise, they will face many severe challenges. This issue requires a national will. Strikes are on the way. Teachers, who went on strike, have started the right thing. Iranian labourers are on the same path.
Q: How fearful is the Iranian government?
They have gathered a bunch of commoners around them to protect themselves. They try to associate the Green Movement with the rich and then tie them to Western countries. They are terrified. I am from the lower classes and I worked for the government for many years. All my friends are the same. The government has to spend large sums of money to feed people and bus them into cities in order to generate crowds for pro-government demonstrations. But they are still unable to address the basic causes of widespread dissatisfaction.
Q: The dissatisfaction you are talking about is just simply dissatisfaction with the government or are these friends of yours in the government questioning the very legitimacy of the regime?
The legitimacy of the regime was gradually destroyed by the actions of the regime since the June 12 election. The current government does not have legitimacy and it is only a body to carry out the responsibilities of the executive branch. With the crimes they committed, torture and rape, the regime has lost its legitimacy. They have been able to remain in power only through terrorizing the masses and using their coercive apparatus. New challenges such as sanctions are going to make matters much worse.
Q: The rhetoric of the EU [European Union] has gotten much harsher towards Iran. What is the reason behind that?
A: European countries have always been interested in their national interests. They did not care about what happened in Iran. But now, they realize a stable Iran is more suitable for investments and it would also prevent the flight of so many Iranians seeking asylum in Europe. The Europeans are tired of a regime that supports terrorism and is a major obstacle to peace in the Middle East. This Iranian government does not serve their long-term interests.
Q: What do you think about possible sanctions against Iran?
A: Sanctions must be smart and targeted and only go after the ruling elite. These sanctions should not affect the Iranian people. Countries should not issue visas for the leaders of Iran and their families. Companies should be banned from dealing with the IRGC. The last issue I would like to mention is human rights. Western countries must make human rights the priority. Iran has made such a big deal of the nuclear program to divert attention from its human rights abuse.
Reader Comments (69)
Scott,
In earlier interviews, Mr. Heidari said that his superiors had ordered him to falsify the results of the voting in Oslo, but that he refused. In this interview, he does not mention that at all.
Is he still available to you for a follow-up question on this? If so, can you also ask him to identify the "superiors" he was referring to?
Thanks.
Eric
Why do you want to know all these informations ? you have defended AN from the beginning and you could continue ! imagine that Heidari was a traitor , that AN has been honest, that IR is the best, that ....
Let iranian people alone; what we know is that we are right ( without any link, imagine that it's 6° sense, or common sense); you will see that Parsi, instead of " the end of the beginning" should have written " the beginning of the end", you will see that "WE", Iranian People, will win . I am so proud of my people .
ange paris,
I'm confused: Why would the Iranian people NOT want evidence that the election was stolen? I thought we actually agreed on this.
He is a hypocrite and an opportunist. "The Europeans are tired of a regime that supports terrorism and is a major obstacle to peace in the Middle East. " Did this happen only after the election? Did he not benefit from this same government for many years? "Countries should not issue visas for the leaders of Iran and their families. " Of course, he didn't bring this up, I'm sure, when the gov was sending him abroad.
"Let iranian people alone; what we know is that we are right ( without any link, imagine that it’s 6° sense, or common sense)"
I really don't know what to say. Why even have discussions...
Eric A. Brill,
The people want evidence about the election, which according to you "appears to have been fair". Why bother about them or the election, when everything is clear to you?
M. Ali,
"Why even have discussions…"
In this part of the world citizens discuss such matters as often and as long as they wish to do. Hard to understand for someone who is accustomed to the IR, where people get beaten, killed, imprisoned, raped and tortured for doing so.
Arshama
M.Ali,
I address this to you because you seem to be the only one who's willing to discuss it for the moment, though I certainly welcome the thoughts of others.
Heidari is in an enviable position to provide concrete evidence of election fraud. He's defected, thumbed his nose at Iran's government, burned his bridges behind him. He's claimed his "superiors" ordered him to falsify election results. Not much left to lose that Heidari hasn't already lost.
All that's left for him to do is to identify those "superiors." I would think the US would pay dearly for that information, and would splash it all over the front pages of American newspapers if it could get it.
It's entirely unclear to me why Heidari would not name those "superiors" who pressured him to falsify the election results. Certainly he is not trying to protect them, or he would never have made the electoral-fraud allegation in the first place.
And yet, not only doesn't he name names, but he even seems to be backtracking from the allegations entirely. He's the "diplomat who resigned over the elections," but he doesn't seem to feel strongly enough about his fraud claims even to mention them in this interview.
Odd, very odd. I thought maybe we had something here, some real evidence.
Guess not.
Eric,
As an IRI shill, do you get special access to the Hidden Imam? If so, can you ask him when he's returning? I'm beginning to schedule my vacations for the rest of the year, and it would be SUPER helpful to know when the end of days is nigh. Thanks.
Eric,
Apologies for belated reply.
I do not have a channel to Mr Heidari, though it would be interesting to see if insideIRAN follow up on the interview.
I do not know if Mr Heidari still has family inside Iran. I cannot speak for Heidari, of course, but I can think of other reasons for caution, even as he made the decision to resign and defect. I doubt that there is a documentary "smoking gun" here, as the pressure was likely to be communicated verbally.
All this said, I think it is just as important to pay attention to Heidari's wider statements about the reaction to the suppression of dissent. This, as much as the claimed pressure to alter results, was instrumental in his decision to leave the diplomatic service.
S.
This is the reason Heidari gave when he resigned:
06-Jan-2010
OSLO (Reuters) – A diplomat at the Iranian embassy in Norway told Norwegian television on Wednesday that he had resigned in protest over a crackdown on demonstrators in Iran but the government in Tehran denied the report. "It was the Iranian authorities' treatment of demonstrators during the Christmas week that made me realize I couldn't continue," public broadcaster NRK quoted Mohammed Reza Heydari as saying. (TV news report from 5 Jan 2010)
After 2 weeks Heidar gave an interview to NRK to confirm his resignation. The footage shows Zohreh Moini of the Norwegian-Iranian Support Committee coming to Heidari's house to give him a bouquet of flowers. She tells Heidari, 'I congratulate you on your return to the people's freedom-seeking movement.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNIfzye3Gxw
It's mostly in Norwegian, but the sections in Farsi have been translated below by Blogger Homylafayette:
Mohammad Reza Heidari:
I was constantly conflicted during the past seven months and asked myself, 'Why should these events take place in my country? What are my people seeking, after all?' On Ashura Day, the blood of my countrymen was shed only because they wanted freedom and what is referred to in the West as democracy. My conscience could not stand those images. I declared that I was resigning so that the people could see that we were with them.
[...]
They said that if I denied this news, I would be able to return. I know that my decision is the right one. My conscience is clear. I hope that my friends around the world, who are listening to me and seeing me and know me, will also stand alongside the people and that they will spurn personal interests and think of the nation's interests.
http://homylafayette.blogspot.com/2010/01/mohammad-reza-heidari-iran-diplomat.html
Eric
According to Heydari :"On election day, I was in charge of the ballot box at the embassy and I never thought this was going to happen. Large numbers of Iranian expats voted in the election and Moussavi won in our precinct. "
It was in Norway, but I am sure it was the same in Iran; there is no honest poll in Iran; they telephone to people asking questions; they have your telephone number, your name and your addresse; daring and saying for whom you have voted is very risky, so they begin to praise AN saying how magnificent he is !!
You say : "I’m confused: Why would the Iranian people NOT want evidence that the election was stolen? I thought we actually agreed on this."
YOU agreed on this but not iranian people .
Heydari :
"These horrific scenes and seeing for ourselves the government killing our youth "
"My conscience is clear "
Why did somebody like him, a diplomat with a strong position in Europe, resign ?? he had money, freedom living in paradise !! why ?? for all explanations above ! to clear his conscience.
And now, why AN can't run the country and lead people, even within the establishement ?? everything has reached a stalemate ?
Because he " knows" that everybody " knows" what has happened during the elections; that they were rigged ! he is indebted to people and to establishement, he has legitimacy nowhere !! even in foreign country; people all over the world think silently " you are guilty" without speaking out, but he senses and sees in the eyes of his speakers !
Mister Ali
It's better not to say anything and think ,like Heydari, for your future !!
Eric, it is very easy for us to check this guy's claim of being pressured to cheat in Oslo. I remember seeing the election results in non-Iranian countries, if I remember correctly, almost all of them had Mousavi as the winner. Which means, either no one pressured this countries to vote AN or ALL of them were like Heidari and refused pressure.
I leave it to a logical thinker to find out which seems more likely.
Arshma, its people like me who is discussing it, unfortunately, people like me are faced with Greens who are not willing to actually "discuss" anything. How am I supposed to discuss something with someone who's response is "what we know is that we are right ( without any link, imagine that it’s 6° sense, or common sense)"
We can bring facts and logic, and we are faced with an argument that's whole premise is that "imagine its 6th sense"...
M. Ali
I think it would be a good idea if you could ask all of the people who have been imprisoned in Iran over the past year - especially those who have been arrested with no Warrants - who they voted for. That would be an interesting exercise. Also ask those women who are suntanned and have now been threatened with arrest who they voted for. I don't know who Neda voted for - but you could also ask her family.
Barry
M. Ali,
It's just the other way round! People like you don't discuss, they impose their opinion on anyone who thinks differently.
Your problem is, as I already mentioned, that you cannot beat, torture or rape us, which is YOUR usual "language" to "convince" others.
In that you match perfectly your beloved sociopathic "president", whose psychological traits I repeat below: http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
# Glibness and Superficial Charm
# Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
# Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
# Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
# Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
I believe the information in my post 9 shows what Heidari's original reason for resigning was. He reiterates that in the InsideIran interview: "These horrific scenes and seeing for ourselves the government killing our youth on the streets made me resign my post in order to motivate the Iranian people to continue their fight."
There's been a lot of talk about an interview that is neither the first one he gave (see post 9) nor the most recent one above, in which Heidari says, in Eric's words: "that his superiors had ordered him to falsify the results of the voting in Oslo, but that he refused".
In *that* interview, does Heidari say that the pressure to falsify the Oslo voting results was the reason why he resigned? Could someone please post a link to that interview?
Thanks.
Your excellency Mister Ali
How you are intelligent being obliged to cope with people who say " we know we have right without providing any link"; for these people , it's enough to see that something have been wrong and people of Iran, our People, were, have been and will be to the streets ready to DIE !! it's not a strong reason for you ? stop having the complexe of superiority ! ( as your president !) .
Arshama
I don't agree with you when you said " Glibness and Superficial Charm"; it was right in the past and among arab people ( north Africa), when he stood up strongly against America but now , the poor man has begun to implore and beg the same country because he's afraid ( what a shame ) ; next week he will be in NY and he's the only president as representative, all the others are the ministers !! it's why the behavors of all leaders, even his friends, Russia and China, have changed;
Mister Ali, in the world people don't like weakness ! he is finished .
Catherine,
I heard Heidari’s first interview on VOA a few days immediately following finalization of his refugee status. He said out of 900+ votes (I do not remember how many north of 900) Mousavi had received 600+ votes and the balance were for the other 3 candidates. He said he was pressured by the regime to change that to 600+ for Ahmadi. He did not say in that interview whether he did or did not follow that order and whether his decision to defect was the consequence of handling that order. He stated his reasons to break ties with IR exactly as those mentioned in this interview- IR brutal treatment of protesters.
In an interview with VOA this week, he again repeated similar reasons for leaving IR. He also added that in Oslo and other embassies 70 t0 80 percent of embassy staff are Green, they had voted Green, they had participated in protest, and in their offices at the embassy they discuss their anti regime sentiments with people they trust. Based on this, I have a feeling that he might have been held responsible for anti-regime sentiment among embassy personnel and perhaps he had been called back to Tehran to be reprimanded. We know many were called back and many were fired. What I would like to know if he followed the order to change election results.
I wonder if this interview was clipped, reworded, etc. The last two q&a's are curious. Has he suggested elsewhere that he privately had agreed with western characterizations of Iran's foreign policy before ? (e.g., terrorism, obstacles to peace, etc?) Was that also then part of his reasons for resigning?
Different thought: I see he's a fan of "targeted sanctions." That's yesterday's news. The fevered, bipartisan Congressional theme in Washington is "Crippling, Crushing, and Suffocating" sanctions. (e.g., to punish the entire country -- without any subtlety)
I also would have liked to have heard what Amb. Heidari had to say about the nuclear swap deal (the one most reformists disliked, not just as political spite, but on principle). Oh, and what would Heidari have to say about Obama's ill-considered nuclear comments? (for which opposition figures seem to be strangely silent about -- afaik)
If I might float a thesis here, Obama's remarks have actually helped K's standing inside Iran.
M Ali,
I presume your response to "greens" was meant for this forum but I would challenge you to consider your statement "faced with Greens who are not willing to actually “discuss” anything" in the context of all who are unable. You might want to start with:
1) The hundered or more dead and buried
2) One of the 18,000 detained of which an estimated 2,800 are still in prison
3) The numerous University staff and thousands of students purged from the universities
4) And the rest of the population to afraid to say anything because of the police state Iran has become
I would suspect in your efforts you would get no answer simply because these people cannot talk openly without fear of retribution from your government. A true objective conversation can only take place when both parties can do it openly with no fear of anything which is obviously not possible in Iran today. I would also ask you to note for months we have had literally none of the posters from Iran who used to regularly contribute. What happened to them? Did they all of sudden become regime supporters? Doubt that! The more likely scenario was either self censorship due to threats or the very real possibility they were silenced by the regime! So I ask you how in the world can you expect to have the greens talk when your own country is so active in silencing them?
Thx
Bill
M.Ali,
"I remember seeing the election results in non-Iranian countries, if I remember correctly, almost all of them had Mousavi as the winner. Which means, either no one pressured this countries to vote AN or ALL of them were like Heidari and refused pressure."
Your recollection is correct, though it applies principally to the US and Western Europe results (not, for example, to Iranians living in the Middle East, who largely voted for AN).
My take is the same as yours: either no one pressured non-Iranian election officials (contrary to Heidari's now-apparently-abandoned claim) or they did pressure them but they all valiantly resisted. A third possibility, of course: they pressured only Heidari, and he resisted, but didn't pressure other non-Iranian election officials.
To others:
Heidari did give other reasons for defecting - his disgust at the brutal treatment by his government of protesters. Please understand my comment had nothing to do with that. I was merely wondering whether he was still sticking to his "electoral fraud" allegation, and, if so, whether there was any prospect that he would back it up with evidence. I understand his concern for protecting loved ones in Iran, but it occurred to me that that consideration would have been just as important to him when he accused his "superiors" of serious wrongdoing in the first place. Simply naming the wrongdoer wouldn't add much to what he'd done. In fact, it might improve his family's situation, since naming the wrongdoer also excludes a large number of potential suspects: all of his "superiors" whom he did not name.
In any case, it looks like this particular charge won't be backed up with any evidence, and that he's probably abandoned the charge altogether.
Eric,
The pressure against Heidari was not necessarily part of an organised campaign to boost Ahmadinejad by approaching all Iranian diplomats. In what was undoubtedly a chaotic period, the approach could well have been part of a haphazard attempt.
Heidari has not abandoned the assertion, and personally I respect any reasons he may have for not naming names. Also --- and again personally --- I give credence to his story precisely he was willing to sacrifice career for the sake of a principled stance.
(It should not be forgotten that a second Iranian diplomat, this time in Tokyo, also resigned over post-elections abuses ---- see http://enduringamerica.com/2010/01/28/iran-document-resignation-letter-of-diplomat-in-japan-join-the-people/.)
Personally, I find it more than interesting that, having pressed so long and hard for a Mousavi campaign member to take the risk of coming forward with a story of electoral fraud/manipulation, supporters of the vote's legitimacy are so quick to dismiss someone who does come forward, setting more obstacles before allowing any possibility that there is truth in the tale.
S.
Eric,
I'd still be interested in reading the interviews you referred to in your first post: "In earlier interviews, Mr. Heidari said that his superiors had ordered him to falsify the results of the voting in Oslo, but that he refused."
Do you have a link or other way of sharing with us what he said in them?
Thanks.
SCOTT:
"Personally, I find it more than interesting that, having pressed so long and hard for a Mousavi campaign member to take the risk of coming forward with a story of electoral fraud/manipulation, supporters of the vote’s legitimacy are so quick to dismiss someone who does come forward, setting more obstacles before allowing any possibility that there is truth in the tale."
To the exact contrary, it was I who DID press for him to come forward. Check out the first message in this thread. My only point was that evidence would be useful. Why would a guy give up everything, accuse his "superiors" of electoral fraud, and yet be reluctant to name the "superiors"?
Right now, his story is nothing but yet another entirely unsubstantiated allegations. We have thousands of those already. I was thinking he might be different, since he was in a great position to provide evidence.
I'm not "quick to dismiss" him. I'll take my time. But if he never offers evidence to support his allegation, and after a while can't even seem to remember the events well enough to include them in his next account, anyone would wonder.
Won't you start to doubt him if he never offers any evidence and stops mentioning the events?