Wednesday
Apr072010
US Military & Iraq's Civilians: The "Collateral Murder" Video (Full & Short Versions)
Wednesday, April 7, 2010 at 12:18
UPDATE 7 APRIL, 1118 GMT: We are adding the full, uncut 38-minute video of the incident . We do so after The Weekly Standard, trying to discredit WikiLeaks, put out the false story that the organisation had edited the video to distort the record of events, implying that the unedited version had been buried. The New York Times repeated the lie. (The full video has been available all the time on the "Collateral Murder" site.)
The US military says, "We're attempting to retrieve the video from the unit who did the investigation."
This is the abridged version of the video obtained by WikiLeaks and released at a press conference today. It claims to show the killing of civilians in Iraq by US military forces in 2007. Wikileaks' coverage also has interviews with families of the killed, supporting documents, and the full 38-minute video.
(Warning: Images are graphic.)
FULL VERSION
SHORT VERSION
The US military says, "We're attempting to retrieve the video from the unit who did the investigation."
This is the abridged version of the video obtained by WikiLeaks and released at a press conference today. It claims to show the killing of civilians in Iraq by US military forces in 2007. Wikileaks' coverage also has interviews with families of the killed, supporting documents, and the full 38-minute video.
(Warning: Images are graphic.)
FULL VERSION
SHORT VERSION
tagged New York Times, Weekly Standard, Wikileaks in Iraq
New York Times, Weekly Standard, Wikileaks in Iraq
Reader Comments (48)
David,
I haven't read all other comment's so I don't know if this has been pointed out... You said "those foreigners had guns"... Iraqi's in Iraq are not foreigners, the soldiers who killed them were the foreign invaders.
Any decent human being watching the Video shall call it “Crime Against Humanity”.
Some cowards in US claiming to be patriotic, with blindness to cover-up crimes of their government and corporations and Israelis/ Jewish-Mafia (to get cheap oil and control other nations) and enrich themselves, claim that foreigners and insurgents with guns are running in Iraq; that US forces have lost 4000 brave soldiers and several thousands wounded; but
they do not mention that these soldiers and their colleagues have killed and murdered more than one Million and wounded and destroyed lives of Millions of innocent Iraqis children, olds and families who had never invaded US. They are committing the same in AFGHANISTAN, Africa , South-Central America (and did in VIETNAM, ……), and are planning to do in IRAN, (under the same CIA, Israeli-agents falsification of WMD).
They claim there is transparency in US. The biggest LIE in the human history is “Western/ American Freedom, Democracy, Equality and Justice “ while slaving people all over the world and stealing their human and natural resources.
The main Media and Television rather than being outraged and discussing these crimes, show which Hollywood ‘celebrity’ has slept with whom and who divorced whom, showing their 'waxed vaginas' without underwear (which are real transparency);
At least these patriots should have courage, tell isit acceptable if it happend to Americans, and be ashamed!!!
James the Hype,
“It’s easier to Monday morning quarterback.”
How so very true. I too believe we are pointing fingers at people and situation we absolutely have no understanding of. It is easy to sit in the comfort of our homes or offices take a sip at our latte and pass judgment. It is another thing to be in these soldiers' shoes where the line between dying and living is blurred.
To readers who are disturbed by the cold exchange between pilots,
Have you ever heard doctor to doctor exchanges in the OR (operating room)? You and your loved ones on the OR table are a broken object they are trying to fix. For them you are a job. They treat their patients like an object because the more detached they are the better jobs they do. A “job well done” is all you should care about. Unlike the doctors in OR these soldiers are at grave risk at their jobs.
Have any of you, who are unloading on these soldiers, ever lived in their environment? Have you ever left for work with the full knowledge that this may be your last day? Were you ever required to prepare/update your Last Will and Testament before you were sent on a business trip? Are you every day surrounded by people who want to kill you? These young men and women eat what you and I would not touch, sleep where we could not, see their fellow soldiers head blown off and with the blood and bone fragments of their fellow soldiers on their face and uniform they have to move on to the next foxhole because if they do not their head would be next. So please take another sip of your latte, close your eyes and imagine yourselves in their shoes before you call them murderer.
War and waging war is a human tragedy one that is as old as mankind. War was not invented by Americans or US soldiers. Military dose not order or wage war, military execute it. War is not a party or a movie, real people kill real people. In war a split second is the exact distance between being alive or dead. For you to be alive some needs to die and that is the ugly truth about the war.
I do not want to minimize or dismiss this 2007 incident. I do not want to be uncompassionate toward loss of lives in this tragic incident but I also do not want to be the Monday morning quarterback. I cannot and would not pass judgment on these soldiers because I truly do not know if I was in those pilots seats I would have made different decisions or have used different words when communicating. I truly do not know. I do not think you do either.
PARVIZ KARIM-PANAHI,
From your previous post on EA, I believe you are a lawyer. I must say I am a bit surprised by your comments above. Lawyers usually do not cling to rhetoric; they use facts, evidence, and use logic to formulate a rational argument.
Your comments also show you have a very low opinion of US, its government and its military; of-course that is your rights under the US constitution. But I am wondering why have you chosen to be a tax-payer in the US and live in Costa Mesa, CA? If US is so bad why do you not go and live in Iran??? Last time I checked the address for lawyers is Evin Prison.
Dear Megan:
For your information,
EVIN PRISON WAS BUILT BY USA/ CIA and SHAH'S SECRET SERVICE/ 'SAVAK' IN IRAN.
YOUR BELOVED COUNTRY/ GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN MAKING ALL THE WORLD PRISON AND/ OR KILLING FILEDS FOR ANYONE NOT COLLABORATING IN THEIR THIEVERIES-CORRUPTION.
This annotated gif clip of a short segment of the WikiLeaks video was sent to me by a friend who used to be in the armed forces, and he says that when the soldiers in the helicopter saw these particular things marked with red notes, from that point on the attack became a "good kill" under the rules of war (hence the image name). I have no idea if that's true or not, but I pass it on to you all for further study and discussion.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4619/goodkill.gif
PARVIZ KARIM-PANAHI,
As usual you have made a claim with no evidence. Please provide us evidence the US built Evin prison. What I found was it was built in 1971 by the Shah to house up to 320 prisoners(mostly political ones.) After it was expaneded to 1500 then 15,000 under the Islamic Republic of Iran. Sorry even if the US had a hand in it the building of the prison the current regime by virtue of the expansion owns at least 98% it. Lets not also forget thousands died at the prison during the political purges after Shah was run out. Or least of all lets not forget the time honored tradition of raping prisoners.
Thx
Bill
@Bill
It matters not who built it - that is a distraction and ancient history anyway.
What matters is - who runs it, controls it, maintains it now??. And we know who that is! Or do we??? Does anybody know who runs what, controls what, maintains what in Iran?? Obviously somebody/something does -- but who/what??
This info is necessary to know, for when the International Criminal Court trials commence - as they ultimately will.
Barry
Megan writes:
"To readers who are disturbed by the cold exchange between pilots".
I think this was not the case. I at least was not disturbed by the coldness of their chattery but - on the contrary - by their excitement: the enjoyment of killing they were expressing.
Professional detachment is one thing, getting pleasure from violence something completely different.
PARVIZ KARIM-PANAHI,
Why do you live in the U.S?????
Statement like this, “YOUR BELOVED COUNTRY/ GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN MAKING ALL THE WORLD PRISON AND/ OR KILLING FILEDS FOR ANYONE NOT COLLABORATING IN THEIR THIEVERIES-CORRUPTION.”, makes you sound like Ahmadinejad the loony and just like him irrelevant.
If CIA helped the late Shah to build Evin prison KGB is running it for Khamenei (or is it Khannei) and Ahmadinejad (or is it Ahmaghinejad).
With regard to U.S. thieveries-corruption, Islamic Republic is far ahead of U.S. in that department. Here is the report: http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table
U.S. is my home by choice and not by accident of birth. It is the best home anyone could have. You know that as well otherwise you would not be sticking around in this country.
Your name suggests you are an Iranian (I hope I am wrong). Your actions and disposition are consistent with those who run the mafia government in Iran. An Internet search shows like Ahmadi and Khamenei you are picking fight with everything that moves, playing victim at all times, have disregard for the rule of law, and trying to tax the system even when you are the violator. Is there any one you have not sued?
After reading the disposition of some of the cases you have brought unsuccessfully I am beginning to get angry at my government for allowing you to abuse the system so much at the expenses of tax payers like me. You really deserve a government like Islamic Republic in which you have no rights; a place where they arrest you and charge you as Mohareb (enemy of God) for even having a blog.
One statement in the opinion by Circuit Court summarized my sentiment when it wrote “Karim-Panahi's amended complaint consists in large part of a rambling and vituperative narrative plagued with errors in grammar and spelling” Minus the grammatical and spelling errors other adjectives are spot on with your comments on this site.
Parviz, I really do not care for Ahmadinejad or Khamenei lookalike or sound-alike. One copy is enough to embarrass me. I certainly do not need additional copy. I, therefore, will not respond to your comments any further.
I think the justification of war can be done following two different principles:
First: "We are the good guys, because we behave in a morally good way."
Second: "We are the good guys, because the enemy are the bad guys."
If the army would follow the first principle, they would condemn acts like shooting the van.
If the justification is based on the second principle, people can always find even worse things done by the enemy. But there is a slippery slope hidden here: the enemy can also point out acts like those shown in this video and justify their acts as revenge. Basically both sides can uphold the same image of "us as the good side" and justify their own horrendous acts by just referring to evil things done by the opposing side. When the violence escalates, the difference between the methods used and degree of brutality accepted slowly erodes - which means that from an outside perspective American troops and Iraqi insurgent behaviour starts to look more and more like just the same.
More: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/04/20104814952153608.html
Attn EA readers in the US:
From the "report:
"Our correspondent said US television networks have also begun playing the tape, which had mostly been ignored until now, and she said that if domestic US media kept up the pressure the military may decide to reopen the case."
This remark would indicate that there was a delay of a couple of days before US TV networks started playing the tape. Is that true?
Appendix
1. The victims deserves to put their names on the EA blog: The photographer Namir Noor Eldeen and his assistant Said Chamagh. There task was to take some photos in Bagdad on that day.
2. Reuters tried to find out what happened to their Reporters in the following days after the murder. The military send some material (don’t know what kind of material) but they disguised the real destiny of the reporters. As I pointed out in
# 25 - that is the second crime after the murder.
Quoting Meghan -- "U.S. is my home by choice and not by accident of birth. It is the best home anyone could have."
******
I think it's second best, but opinions vary. Switzerland gets my vote for #1.
Catherine,
At most their was a delay of hours or maybe a day. Once I noticed the post on Scotts site I was able to see it on most major networks in the US. In fact if you look at the comments sections you will literally find thousands of comments on some. It still is one of the top stories at this point.
Thx
Bill
Dave - you might want to reconsider your vote for Switzerland. A good friend of ours lives there and constantly reports on how uptight the Swiss can be. When he first moved into his appartment in Basel, his neighbours - instead of introducing themselves or saying hello - came over to complain to him about making too much noise whenever he flushed the toilet after 10 pm! :-)
If you look at this video from the perspective of the Apache crew and not, as many here seem to have done, with a moralistic view inspired by fanciful titles like 'Collateral Murder', then you can see the crew as being reasonably justified in their action.
As I understand the video, this is an AH64 scouting ahead of and providing Close Air Support to ground forces moving into the area. They initially engage 5 individuals of around 14 moving across the 'courtyard'. The first two are carrying satchels, 1 of the three following them is carrying a long thin object that to a soldier would appear to be about the size of a loaded RPG-7 or even considering the length a Strela 2 launcher. The 2nd of the three following sticks very close to the 1st, as an enemy carrying additional rounds might, whilst the third is loosely carrying in his right hand what to my eyes appeared to be an object not unlike an AK47 without its stock.
Though their perception was inaccurate, I do not believe it was poorly judged given the pilot's view of a group of men, unaccompanied by coalition forces, not wearing identifiable clothing, nor known as friendlies to ground forces in the area. Megan suggested earlier in her comment that AH64's are equipped with highly sophisticated detection equipment (presumably she meant radar as well as optics), however, as far as I am aware none of these exist on current Apaches, especially the radar dome (AH64D), which isn't used in Iraq since there are no armoured threats. Instead, a basic optical sight via a camera dome that is slaved to the Pilot's helmet sights is employed for target aquistition. It used to be the case that the crew would also have access to a similarly powerful camera, via the Direct View Optics system, however due to lack of use this was scrapped at the same time as the Radome upgrade, and dedicated to an auxillary screen in the pilot's cockpit. Such optical capabilities as being able to see 'a mouse or a cricket moving on the ground' would not be used on a helicopter used primarily for the attack role by pilots, even if they were in existence. I think it is more likely you are mixing up the optics on a higher flying and more stable platform like the MQ9, or the AH64D. In either case, they would not be used, since the pilot is also having to keep the aircraft in the air and moving so as not to be a steady target for enemy rpg fire.
None of the men are wearing identifiable clothing such as a flak jacket, and according to the (only, given the lack of dialogue with other units) ground forces in the area 'Hotel 2-6' - there are no other personnel of theirs in the Apache's target area. Hotel 2-6 as I understood was a convoy of at least 2 Bradley apc's and 2 Humvees, which whilst armoured are significantly more vulnerable to gunfire and rpg's than the Bradleys, hence the desire for support from the Apache.
This was a tragic misunderstanding, but I don't believe the pilot or crew were maliciously killing civilians or being overly cavalier, their enthusiastic (and only with HINDSIGHT; from a CIVILIAN perspective, quite macabre) banter aside.
They were merely removing what they perceived to be a threat to vulnerable ground forces. Whether the pilot should have taken more time to determine whether the personnel on the ground were friendlies or not is a difficult question, since even an armoured helicopter like the Apache (all variants) is vulnerable to ground attack by rpg's and sams, limiting time for a decision. I despair at the need for quick thinking of the pilots who are unable to make an absolute justification, but also at those killed, for knowingly not wearing identifiable clothing in an insurgent infested warzone, with a very loud, very distinct Apache circling their heads at 500 feet.
I've been in UK this last week, I didn't hear anything about this video. And in France, nobody seems to have heard anything on the TV. I haven't checked the newspapers websites... I guess there's a block of stone somewhere in those newsrooms, or it will appear when they can't avoid it.
@James
>an insurgent infested warzone, with a very loud, very distinct Apache circling their heads at 500 feet.
I've only watched it twice, but I wondered how high they were, because nobody on the ground seems to be looking upward. They surely know that shots have come from these helicopters, but they don't seem to be aware or are not looking at them ?
And also, what seems strange to me, is that there are always people walking normally, not even running or hiding, how can that be ? Do they not realize the shots were from the helis ?
And the other thing, from the photo point of view, how come they don't have more zoom, ? They never really have a close view of the ground. Unless they have other means, to see much closer, that we don't see on the video ? At the first two missile shots, there is someone walking on the left of the screen. The pilots don't even mention this, unless I didn't get it correctly
For civilians - and also for me as ex-Military person, seeing death close up and in detail is a grueling experience.
But war exists - and has existed in one form or another since we humans came down from the trees. War can bring out the worst in people. No doubt about that.
But I wonder what the people who have watched this video would have thought/done if they had been inside Berlin in the final closing stages of WW2. Then - if it even moved, it was killed - civilian, soldier, man , woman, child - anything, anybody! The biggest difference of course - is that these days we get to see it in widescreen colour on our TV screens in the living room. I wonder what it would have been like to see the Jews being forced into the gas chambers - and shovelled into the oven, live and in colour?? Or the last ditch refusal to surrender by the Japanese on Iwo Jima - such that they were burnt out of their holes in the ground with flame throwers. Or the starvation of Russian civilians at Stalingrad and the massive battles fought there?? What about the "Rape of Nanking" committed on Chinese civilians by the Japanese?? What if we all had had TV then??
Barry
Barry,
Well said. Many seem to forget what war really is. The "gift" we have today is we can all get to see it up and close unlike yester year. What normal human being wouldn't be horrified by it. Seeing rather than reading about is the big difference. Ironically seeing it will also at times hamper efforts when no choice is left but force. It will essentially introduce the if, but, or arguement that can potentially be fatal for the combatant. Regardless hopefully the greatest thing out of all this is that we now know how ugly we can be and will work that much harder to avoid the violence. The X factor will always be human nature which will perpetually be filled with conflict and the violence that usually accompanies it. It will be interesting as communication evolves how conflict so hugely effected by public opinion will handled.
Thx
Bill
My guesstimation of altitude was wrong. Having spoken to some friends a better assessment of the Apache's altitude is around 2200feet; with a +/- 70 feet error margin given azimuth changes according to that video readout during fire, and the 2.8 second delay between firing and the bullets reaching their victims. So that changes things a bit, the Apache would be slightly quieter at 2200 feet than at 500. But we're still talking about a bloody great attack helicopter with twin turbines here, its certainly not out of earshot when it circles above you even at that altitude.
There will almost certainly be an argument that if the pilot had been flying lower his camera would have had a better view of the men and what they were carrying. However, I would tend to disagree, as at a lower altitude the pilot would be more at risk from fire from the ground, and so less time would be spent paying attention to what specific items the civilians were carrying and more on trying to keep an eye out for other threats.
I'd personally like to know the full story regarding the position of troops on the ground that day, in light of the fact that at 2200 feet the chopper would have been out of range of RPGs and small arms. Such information, though unlikely to be released, would tell us a great deal as to whether the pilot just had an itchy trigger finger or if he was urged by ground troops more vulnerable than we know.
If you're digusted with today's Army, Inc., please join my Facebook group "I do NOT support the troops" at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=194049499579
Also, see my article "Fuck the Troops" - http://blog.invisible-republic.org/2009/12/fuck-troops.html