Friday
Dec112009
Iran: "The Military Will Stand with the Iranian People"? (with Audio)
Friday, December 11, 2009 at 12:37 
UPDATE 1225 GMT: The prominent Iranian exile, Mohsen Sazegara, has declared in a video message that the claimed letter and audio will be significant in assuring people that Iranian military forces are with them.UPDATE 0845 GMT: The claimed audio of the announcement of the eight regiments has now been posted.
The letter, on the reformist website Gooya, appeared last evening: "The Army is the Refuge of the People". This morning it is still causing excitement and uncertainty: is a section of the Iranian army and air force preparing to stand against the Government and "with the Iranian people" if the regime's violence continues?
Translation of the letter, purportedly signed by eight military units, from HomyLafayette:
In the name of pure God (NB Instead of the Arabic Allah, the word Yazdan is used. Yazdan is derived from the ancient Iranian language of Pahlavi. This may indicate that the author(s) of the statement are more patriotic than religious. It may also indicate that the author(s) want to target military personnel who are more patriotic than religious.)
The military is the refuge of the nation
In the years of the Sacred Defense (NB The Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988) when, alongside our Revolutionary Guards brothers, we defended this land, we were in reality defending the honor and dignity and lives and possessions of the Iranian people. The country is precious because the Iranian nation is precious. The weapons of the Revolutionary Guards and the military must be employed in the service of this nation and the lives [of their servicemen] should be sacrificed for the people of Iran. In the days when, alongside our Revolutionary Guards brothers, we were giving our lives for this nation, we never imagined that a day would come when a group of Guardsmen, contrary to the wishes of the vast majority of the true and devoted personnel of the Revolutionary Guards, would use the might of their weapons against this nation.
The military considers itself the refuge of the nation and has never submitted to the demands of politicians to oppress the people. It has remained faithful to its vow to not interfere in politics, but it cannot remain silent while its countrymen are persecuted and violated. For this reason, to those individuals who have been imposed on the Revolutionary Guards and who are engaged in aggression and tyranny against the lives and dignity and honor of the Iranian people and who, more than anyone, have betrayed the blood of the martyrs of our country's armed forces, whether it be the Revolutionary Guards or the military, we issue a serious warning that if they do not change course, they will be faced with the reaction of the military's selfless men. The military is the refuge of the people, and it will defend, to its last drop of blood, the peaceful people of Iran against any aggressor.
[signed]
- A group of pilots and personnel of the aviation division of the Islamic Republic of Iran Army (Havanirooz)
- A group of commanders and personnel of the 33rd artillery division of Isfahan
- A group of pilots and servicemen of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (Nahaja)
- The Shahid Sattari University of the the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (Nahaja)
- A group of the personnel of the command staff of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (Nahaja)
- A group of the personnel of the support training center of the Islamic Republic of Iran Army
- A group of the professors and officials of the Imam Ali University for officers
- A group of the personnel and officials of the command center of the military
EA sources (and our readers, who picked up on the story several hours ago) have noted that 36 military generals 24 military officers were reportedly arrested in July for planning to attend Hashemi Rafsanjani's Friday Prayer speech in full military uniform, showing solidarity with demonstrators.
None of the regiments is Revolutionary Guard, and this morning the question is large: how much support do these eight regiments have in the rest of the Army and Air Force?
Reader Comments (141)
People,
This letter seems to be legitimate. There is no reason to think otherwise. And the last thing the regime would do is to portray that there are cracks within it's armed forces. That is the last thing they would do. The Regular Army ( Astesh) and the Air Force and the Navy hate the Sepah. This is a known fact. The regime does not trust the regular armed forces, hence it created Sepah as a parallel force It is clear as day. Sepah is mainly a bunch of government appointed individuals who are given ranks by Khamanei and not because of military service. They are appointed and often do not even have formal military training and never graduated from military academy ( daneshgah e affsari)
Mark
Thank you for giving us the benefit of your knowledge, bravo !
Scott,
Exactly. For example lets take one of the lines that says
A number of military commanders of the armed forces. If there are 10 colonels in this group then you have 10 regiments under their command.
A group of Air Force commanders, the same, etc
I'm no military analyst, I've just been raised in a paranoid society :D
we are used to huge noise of extremists, these people become scary when they don't make a sound. just like the election night! and tonight!
the number of forces doesn't matter. because if there was a battle between RG and army, both, specially RG, would badly get hurt. that's just crazy. what matters is that this is coming from headquarters...it's too rebellious....
there can be two cases:
1. it's authenticated, considering the fact that military is under control of leader, the leader now has an excuse to remove all of those who have written the letter and replace them with loyal-to-leadership ones.
2. It's not authenticated , so somebody must have set the army up, for some reason; in Iran that reason is usually a conspiracy theory used as an excuse for wide arrests....
by the way:
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/12/11/93860.html
According to a veteran, the main artillery of Iranian army is located in Isfahan, and Group, is usually bigger than a "Lashgar" which is consisted of 12000 soldiers...now translate it to the appropriate word...
i just listened to the audio segment.
it didn't sound like a statement , but it was more of a a school kid nervously reading the news.
is this supposed to be the official audio statement?can somebody confirm that?
Sarlasghar is General.
Sepahbod is bregied general
Arteshbod is Major Genaral.
And this is off wikipedia. In the open the hatred of the Army towards the Sepah.
The Iranian Army has published an article on the 8th of February 2009, heavily criticizing the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution (IRGC) and Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) for falsification of the facts about the Iran–Iraq War in favor of the IRGC and ignoring the role of the Iranian Army in the war[3].
General Salehi as the commander-in-chief of the Army along with other high ranking generals of the Army signed this article in an extremely shocking action for the IRGC and the top level officials of the Iranian regime. Because it was the very first time in the Islamic Republic's history that an official organisation has dared to publicly criticize the IRGC, as the IRGC is considered a holy organisation and the main military force to harass and crush the Islamic Revolution's opposition forces.
The source of the paragraph in mark's comment above, in case anyone wanted to see the citations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataollah_Salehi
I think you are all so desperate for a miracle that you want to believe anything. There is no proof that this is real and untill it is proven to be genuine beyond any doubt this should not be taken all that seriously.
The chance of it being real is very small, the timing is strange and the way it is communicated leaves alot of questions.
Its best to wait a few days before raising your hopes to high...
there's no doubt that army is unhappy, but a letter without even one name raises questions...
And of course, how can an officer object when the commander in chief of all military forces does not???
And the 33rd group of Army is in Parandak not in Isfahan!
http://vuy.ir/post-324.aspx
How can commanders make such a big mistake????
this site illustrates Iranian army ranks very well:
http://www.rasekhoon.net/Article/Show-25300.aspx
Sepah Military Analyst - the regime is hated by all sectors of society - both in the cities and rural areas it is universaly depised - and there are huge divisions even within SEPAH - especially in the lower ranks - many of whom have numerous green relatives and friends - and will not neccessarily be prepared to kill them simply to prop up what everyone in Iran knows to be a corrupt and amoral regime.
The economy is collapsing - jobs are disappearing rapidly as more business's are failing - people are starving - discontent pervades the nation of Iran - and not just because the vote was stolen.
none
I see you are very clever saying "a letter without even one name raises questions…" ; perhaps you wanted that they put on the letter:
my name is .....
my address ......
come on, arrest me, show me in TV and kill me !! perhaps it was wiser for you and more credible !!
Bluntly non sens !
Afshin
Where is our chess player !! I don't know why it's so strange ,when an army, being used to doing noble tasks, declare wanting to help the people of the country ! as I have read in other blog (the comments of iranian people) : this event shows that there are still some "men" in the country !!
@ ange paris
I am the first to say that the army is a danger for the goverment and that many if not the great majority is against the goverment but to assume the tape is real is perhaps a bit far fetched at the moment.
It could be, I hope it is and I wish I hadsome proof or at least signs that this could be real BUT the odds are against it.
One can not rule out that it might be real but to assume it is genuine at this moment is a bit early hours....
Real or not the regime is finished. Everyone knows it including the old man. The economy is in ruins and the village idiot is president. The students know, the mullahs know, the army knows, the RG guard know, and the Basij that continue on their path of rape, murder and torture of their countermen will know when they are hung from a tree.
Long live the proud persian people!!!!
PB
Ahsant !
"...the Basij that continue on their path of rape, murder and torture of their countermen will know when they are hung from a tree."
I understand your sentiment, but I hope you're not made head of the judiciary of the interim government..
Afshin,
I for one don't believe I am desperate to try to believe anything. I know for a fact based on personal information that the Army is extremely unhappy with the Sepah and the government in general. This is substantiated by numerous analysis. You can even see reference to this on Wikipedia.
This is a warning letter. Which means it will not be signed with real names. As I said they are warning that they will step in. They are not stupid to sign names. You assert that this is a fake letter. Some of us assert it is not. No one can prove the other side wrong. However, there is so much data that supports cracks in the regime and in the military and the Sepah that make the existence of this letter highly plausible. Timing is right on too.
However your argument has no supporting basis unless you can give us some data which points that there are no divisions and cracks in the system and the regime and that the military forces are highly united and supportive of the current system. If you have information supporting this highly united regime scenario, by all means I am all ears.
@Mark
Just because the regime shows cracks and that most probably the majority of the Army is against the regime, it does not make a tape REAL.
I wish the tape to be real but your Logic does not make sense.... It is actually reversed logic...
Good Journalisme dictates any news being claimed be proven to be real first. One should not look for for proof of it being fake, one should look for proof it being real... And till this moment there is no proof of it being real. Hence one should not jump joy in enthousiasme but should be cautious and should look into it the coming days.
When I listen to the tape, look at the facts, analyse the situation I can at best assume that the tape is unfortunatly and most probably fake.
At the same time if the tape ends up being fake this does not mean the Regime is united and that there is no discontent in the Army.
Your analyses reminds me a bit of George W. Bush... you're either with us or against us... Your Logic is a bit Flat, to black and white and at times reversed. So in a nuttshell;
1) just because there is discontent in the army it does not mean the tape is real
2) if the tape is fake it does not mean that the regime is united or that the army is supportive of the regime
And - just because I am NOT paranoid, it does not mean that "they" are not out to get me!! :)
I am sure that the Regime (and it's supporters) will discount this as being a fake -- BUT , you can be sure that in the very back of their minds and in the wee quiet hours, they will feel a question mark hanging over them. They are essentially paranoid - and anything that keeps their state of paranoia at a high pitch is good. Paranoid people in an actively paranoid state of mind are not able to make good rational decisions
Barry
Love the discussion in this thread.
I think Mark is correct that this was a clever move to send a signal not only to the regime hired assassins and thugs but also getting the regime to chase its own tail (not knowing who to go after). Whoever or whichever group did it, it is a stroke of brilliance in warfare.
@Afshin,
Well, argue your point which you are clearly not by calling me names. I say it is plausible that this letter is real due to the huge cracks with the system and it's armed forces that are widening due to the political situation. You say ?? I think like George Bush and I think black and white ? Hmm, ok. Let me think about that since your logic is too complex for my limited and binary cognitive abilities.
Now now - Mark and Ashfin.
Is it more enjoyable to fight one another than ----- ?????
Barry
:) Barry
We are all on the same side. I hope it did not seem that I was fighting or picking on Afshin.
Scott, Angie,
With regard to burning of Photo of Khomeini, this is what I heard.
The burning of Khomeini picture broadcasted over Press TV was the work of the regime itself. This was done to stir emotions in those who still believe in Khomeini (my words-are part of his cult). It was done to discredit Green Movement as non-believers or kafar (anti Islam). It was done to marginalize reformists and leaders of Green Movement. And it was done to put citizens against citizens, divide and conquer (an ultimate act of regime desperation)
The source for the above report/claim is a man who is called the “Man Who Knows too Much”, (mardi ke zeyaad midooneh). This man calls the political program of a radio station (whose satellite service was knocked out by IR half a way through the live broadcast of 16 Azar and it is not fixed yet) on daily basis. This man talks about detail of discussion in Parliament (Majlis) or news in ministries or other government departments, etc. Sometimes for those who do not live in Iran is hard to make sense of what he says but callers from Iran follow his discussion and comment on it which tells me he is not fabricating news from the thin air.
This guy reminds me of the Deep Throat of Nixon era. Whoever he is he can afford making international calls every day and must not have any fear of getting caught. Just makes you wonder who this person could be and which government entity he works for.
Anyhow, I cannot vouch for the credibility of the “Man Who Knows too Much” but I thought I share his assertion about Khomeini burning picture on Press TV and his claim of hands behind it.
The reaction and comments of regime mouthpieces on this blog were in-line with regime talking points as the “Man who knows too Much” suggested.
Fight !!?? How is this a fight.
I have just stated that I doubt the letter is real and that the logic Mark is giving of it being real does not make sense.
The biggest argument used so far is that there is dissatisfaction within the army which is in no way proof of a tape or letter being real.
Now everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the logic used by Mark is in my opinion to black and white, to flat and reverse logic (specially the part where instead of the news being p[rove true one is asking for proof of it being fake.)
If Mark or anyone on this forum can not take that little critisme then perhaps they are overly sensetive to it.
My feeling is that the most readers so desperatly want this news to be true that the immidiatly accept it for the truth without any evidence backing it up