Friday
Dec112009
Turkey: Erdogan Denies Airspace for Any Israel Operations Against Iran
Friday, December 11, 2009 at 11:32 
On Thursday, speaking to Egyptian journalist Fahmi Huwaidi, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan maintained his wary stance regarding Israel. Erdogan denied rumours that Israel had entered Turkey's airspace to carry out reconnaissance and declaredAnkara's reaction would resemble an "earthquake" if Israel ever did so.
tagged Fahmi Huwaidi, Iran, Israel, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey in Middle East & Iran
Fahmi Huwaidi, Iran, Israel, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey in Middle East & Iran
Reader Comments (10)
This is from Chomsky six years ago, but relevant:
"A year ago, over 10 percent of the Israeli air force was reported to be permanently based in eastern Turkey, that is, in these huge U.S. military bases in eastern Turkey. And they are reported to be flying reconnaissance over the Iranian border."
http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20030516.htm
It's an interview so there are no sources unfortunately. I'm curious what others think about that though.
Chomsky also says - much more recently - that Israel is a US military base.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=113359
He's more correct in that regard than you might imagine..
The over $10 billion (expecetd to incresae to $25 bilion by 2015) Turkey-Iran trade is now a major factor along with EU Islamophobia which is alienating most Turks. The Israeli atrocities in the Gaza onslaught were a major watershed point in turning Turkish public opinion. The daily images of Zionist "settlers" burning mosques and taking over more West Bank lands and encroaching over Jerusalem also are not very endearing to the Turks.
Iran and Turkey are the only two real and sustainable major economic and military powers of the region with a combined population of over 150 million, with a huge consumer market, educated populations and strong religious, ethnic, cultural and linguistic links. In the emerging Asia centric multi-polar world, Turks see their future more with Asia and the Muslim world, than being a second-class European Union reject.
@ Realist
Well, I don't know much about Turkey, but I would welcome a realignment of nations toward regional integration as an alternative to dependence on superpowers, not just in the Middle East, but all across the socio-economic South (Latin America has made great strides in this direction over the past few decades).
But I really don't think a stable regional interdependence in the Middle East is possible without Israel's participation and that's not going to happen until the Israeli-Palestinian problem is resolved. Who knows when the political atmosphere in Israel will change sufficiently enough for that to become possible?
Somebody,
Chomsky is quite the character. Iranian press loves to parade him out all the time. What is ironic is that an Iranian version of Chomsky could never exist in Iran. Could you imagine what would happen to an Iranian journalist based in Tehran who was as critical of the Iranian government as Chomsky is towards the US? One answer---Evin prison!! While I don't agree with much of what Chomsky says I do want to see it continue because different views are what keep us all honest. Sometimes they may be right and we are wrong.
On Israel having its air force in Turkey--I highly doubt that and Chomsky has been known to say stuff like this while never offering any evidence. The issue with Turkey started awhile ago with Edrogan and his Islamist leaning party coming to power. The Gaza crisis was just the catalyst that got it to a boil. The funny thing about Edrogan and Turkeys whole stance is his nation is sitting on the conquered home of Ordthodox Christianity that is now 99.9% Muslim. In addition Turkey killed millions of Christians in the early 1900's and forced millions of other out of the country. Even to this day recent polls showed 60 to 70% of turks would have concerns having a christian living next to them or even in power. Least of all lets not forget Turkey still illegally occupies half of Cyprus!! This all smells of hypocrisy to me. I am no fan of Israel actions but I am tired of the Islamist hypocrisy of others when they are basically saying "it is alright if we conquer, persecute, or convert you but hold on if you try to do it to us." The religious apartheid in Israel and a majority of the Islamic world needs to end! We can't get along if our worldview continues to be shapped by the we vs them paradigm.
Thx
Bill
Bill,
Yeah, the Iranian press's use of Chomsky is hypocritical, especially given Chomsky's position that criticising one's own government (as he does) is much more important than pointing the finger at others (over whom you have no control anyway). As for his credibility, I've never seen any legitimate criticism of his facts, and he's been a target for quite some time. His books are usually full of citations.
I don't really see how the Ottoman wars, the Armenian holocaust and the occupation of Cyprus are relevant to the discussion. No one suggested the Turks had a clean record. You don't need to be a saint in order to refuse the use of your airspace for waging war. It's more of a strategic kind of a decision.
But that aside, I agree a hundred percent with your ethical stance. People need to stand up for justice wherever human rights are violated, be that in Israel, Iran, Turkey or anywhere else because governments can't seem to help but employ double-standards and be hypocritical on these issues.
It is quite amusing that people like "bill" have such a selective memory regurgitating a reviionist history of Turkey based on crude Islamophobia and having the temerity to decalre that modern Turkey being on "stolen land". Perhaps the appalling murdererous history of US from the mass killing, genocide, poisoning, rape and ethnic cleansing of the NATIVE AMERICANS should ring a bell. If not so distant history is too hard to remember then perhaps the lastest US hypocrisy and double standards on "ethical practices" like Guantanomo Bay, Abu Gharaib, Baghram, Renditions, Waterboarding, Torture and other heineous crimes should definately ring a bell. How about questioning the "validity" of the two lost wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that have killed and maimed over a million innocent civilians. Both these wars were based on deliberte distortions, lies, paranoia and hate-peddling built on a bodygurad of lies like Saddam's non-existent WMD's and links to imaginery "terror'. It is time rational people with integrity really expose the real hypocrites.
It is so disgusting to see people with racist Islamophobia harping on "ethics" so selectively. At least Dr.Chomsky has the moral integrity to challenge the accepted establishment double standards in the so-called west and openly question the Zionist crimes in Palestine and globally destabilizing US policies that have banrupted America at every level from economic collapse to a total credibility and "integrity" gap worldwide. I wonder where this violent world be if most people had the integrity to challenge injustice and oppression where-ever it emanated from?
Somebody,
I see your point about relevance but my point was to show a record of animosity towards the other. It has not always been a constant but it has existed in Turkey for some time. That was my only point. Factually speaking that have no bearing on events today they were just mentioned to show a precedance.
Thx
Bill
Historian,
Ah the "Islamophobia" title is thrown out with abandon. Gee the last time I looked most of the posters on this site happen to be Muslim one would think I should be running with fear from such a site! Ah but I am not and "Somebody" took my post for what it was. My post was not a comparative piece of west vs Islam but instead a look at Turkey's history to show precedance. As for revisionist I beg to differ and you can go to any number of sources and my statements stand true.
The fact is that Turkey is the home of Orthodox Christianity and was conqured by Muslims. The Armenian genocide happened. The population exchanges with Greece happened. The poll I mentioned was done this year. No big deal in the West or for Christians on this today. Yet the Islamist fanatics scream about being conqured by the Jews who have a historical claim to Israel predating theirs by thousands of years. Qaradawi is still demanding an apology from the Vatican for the Crusades dismissing the fact it was in direct response to over 500 years of Jihad that conqured two thirds of the Christian world. The hypocrisy is those who claim a supremacist manifesto yet when they get smashed they cry victimhood. These are the same people who jump for joy when a non Muslim is converted yet call for death when a Muslim converts to another faith(all four Sunni and the 12er Shia schools of jurisprudence prescribe death for apostasy.)
The entire concept of Islamophobia is hypocrisy on a gand scale. The OIC states would have you believe this is the world's greatest problem yet year after year they always take the top spots in the who's who of the world's worst human and religious rights abusers. For some home work go read the OIC report on Islamophobia and compare it to any number of human rights reports for Islamic states. You will find harrasement in the west with large finacial settlement vs. death, church torched, and state sanctioned persecution in these Islamic states. The OIC also did not agree with the Universal Decleration of Human Rights. Gee now why would they do that? The answer is in the Cario Decleration of Human rights that clearly states:
" All human beings form one family whose members are united by their subordination to Allah and descent from Adam. All men are equal in terms of basic human dignity and basic obligations and responsibilities, without any discrimination on the basis of race, colour, language, belief, sex, religion, political affiliation, social status or other considerations. The true religion is the guarantee for enhancing such dignity along the path to human integrity." Notice the word dignity instead of rights! Notice we are all subordinated to Allah regardless of our faith--gee I didn't know I was really a bowing down to him and supposed to be Muslim!
"Islam is the religion of true unspoiled nature. It is prohibited to exercise any form of pressure on man or to exploit his poverty or ignorance in order to force him to change his religion to another religion or to atheism. " Translation--it means their is only one truth and true freedom of religion is not allowed. Again alludes to claim we are all muslims hence the "revert" title often used with new converts. Go ask some Bahais, who had every house of worship demolished or seized by the Iranian government, what they think about religious freedom under Islam.
"All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Shari'ah." The full embodiement of Sharia clearly discriminates against other faiths and you need look no further than the whole concept of a Dhimmi. The fact remains vestiges of Dhimmi laws are rife throughout the Islamic world that allow for state sanctioned discrimination of the non Muslim. Just go to wiki to read up on the rights for a Dhimmi. Lets not forget slavery is still legal under Sharia.
Here is a link to whole Cario Decleration of Human Rights: http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/cairodeclaration.html
While I was not doing a comparative piece I agree with much you said about the US. I for one think the Iraq war was evil(I protested against it) but I am perplexed why the Islamic world can protest this but have remainded silent when Saddam killed hunderds of thousands of his people. Sort of reminds of Darfur in which the Islamic world chooses to be silent while 2 million died since the early 90's yet instead fixates on the Israeli Arab conflict that has claimed 50,000 lives since 1948. Afghanistan, on the other hand, was a good move and the error was not making it the focus. That focus should have also been an ideological one battling the fountain head of radicalism that streams out of Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent the Muslim Brotherhood. Yes the whole torture affair with the US was wrong in so many ways but I like to remind you numerous detainees have refused to be shipped back to home countries. Why because instead of waterboarding(which was only used on less than ten) they will get real torture like the Iranians gave to the protestors. Rape--please cite some examples of it being a wide spread practice within the US military. It seems to me that the Iranians use it along with Janjaweed in Sudan(I worked with enough project on Darfur and met numerous rape victims) quite a bit.
As for Genocide the only application I see is with the American Indians. I am actually part Cherokee, albeit a very small percentage, and I look on that tragedy with great sorrow. They were cheated, killed, and oppressed no way to justify it. However, the deaths many Islamists like to bleat on and on about are 70 million in America. The problem with this arguement is the fact the entire Indian population was estimated no higher than 50 million for both north and south america. These cleric also leaves out the incovenient truth that the biggest killer of all was imported diseases. Estimates place this death toll at 70 to 90% of the Indians who died. Here is a link for some more background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples. You can then contrast this with the death tolls accumulated during the expansion of Islam. In India numerous scholars have put the figure at 50 to 80 million. Millions died in Iran when the Arabs invaded. Millions died in Europoe as well. Then there is the Arabic slave trade which had a death rate of 70 to 90% due to the practice of castration of males and it was estimated 11 to 18 million actually made it to market to be sold. Do the math and the death rate was astronomical. To boot the Islamic world practiced slavery up until 1960 when the West finally got them to ban it unilaterally. To this day the Islamists bleat on and on about the Atlantic slave trade yet are oblivious to their own dirty hands and the truth no abolishment movement ever came about in the Islamic world. Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
Yes I am highly critical of Islam but I am also of the disastrous policies and actions of the West. Many CIA interventions, like operation Ajax, were wrong. Corporate greed of multinationals often "bulldoze" the indigenous people around the globe in their pursuit of profit. I also cannot understand how a people like the Jews, so oppressed at one time, can visit this crime on the Palestinians. One would think the Jews know better. It is a very long list when you count up the transgressions of the West. However, despite what many may think in the Islamic world we are not at the root of all faults much is do to their own hand. In addtion, as I laid out, much is also due to the ideology of Islam as it pertains to the unbeliever. I do fight for injustice but I fight it on all sides. If you term being critical of Islam Islamophobia then I gues I am and Islamophobe but my two best friends, who are both Iranian Shias, would disagree. While they don't agree with all I say they do see the logic of my arguements and realize much of the malaise in the Islamic world is the result of their coreligionists. In the future if you want to fling out claims please back them up with resources and I will debate you on it. I will also be the first to also admit I am wrong.
Thx
Bill