Friday
Jan022009
Holiday Story of the Day: Muslim Family Looks for Safe Seats, Gets Booted Off Flight
Friday, January 2, 2009 at 11:36
Follow-Up: Nine Muslim Passengers Booted from AirTran Flight
Follow-up: Flashback in the War on Terror --- The Muslims at Shoney's Big Boy Restaurant
From CNN:
A Muslim family removed from an airliner Thursday after passengers became concerned about their conversation say AirTran officials refused to rebook them, even after FBI investigators cleared them of wrongdoing.
Atif Irfan said federal authorities removed eight members of his extended family and a friend after passengers heard them discussing the safest place to sit and misconstrued the nature of the conversation.
Irfan, a U.S. citizen and tax attorney, said he was "impressed with the professionalism" of the FBI agents who questioned him, but said he felt mistreated when the airline refused to book the family for a later flight.
Follow-up: Flashback in the War on Terror --- The Muslims at Shoney's Big Boy Restaurant
From CNN:
A Muslim family removed from an airliner Thursday after passengers became concerned about their conversation say AirTran officials refused to rebook them, even after FBI investigators cleared them of wrongdoing.
Atif Irfan said federal authorities removed eight members of his extended family and a friend after passengers heard them discussing the safest place to sit and misconstrued the nature of the conversation.
Irfan, a U.S. citizen and tax attorney, said he was "impressed with the professionalism" of the FBI agents who questioned him, but said he felt mistreated when the airline refused to book the family for a later flight.
tagged AirTran, Atif Irfan, CNN, FBI in War On Terror
AirTran, Atif Irfan, CNN, FBI in War On Terror
Reader Comments (24)
I was sorry to hear about the Muslim family who were removed from their flight. However, I do not understand why they had to discuss the safest place to sit. I have folwn for over 37 years during my military service, work and pleasure and never had such a discussion. Most people who fly have assigned seating. Unless your seat is over the wing or in the rear of the plane there should not be much to discuss.
My family has random discussions like that all the time about every subject under the sun. Perhaps it wasnt the best way and place to have the discussion, but they probably didn't even think about it raising suspicion until he saw the two girls snap their heads away. Here's the real question: do you think the girls would have reported suspicious activity if it had been a white, middle-class family? I'm not saying they would or wouldnt have. Just curious what everyone thinks.
I have totally had that discussion with my mom and sister...if not on a plane then certainly in an airport. But I think on the plane. I'm a nervous flier and I like to convince myself of the safety of my seat, which I only learn about once I'm on the plane.
What gets me about this story is that the airline wouldn't let them reschedule. Since they did nothing wrong, and even the FBI thinks so, I think the airline should have said, "Ok, let's help you reschedule." Vs. treating them like they were guilty.
I agree with the FBI and the airline that ANY concern raised by the passengers-at-large is wise to investigate. Consider the worst-case-scenario prospects of a situation where a dangerous passenger was observed, concerns were raised, but not investigated because they DID match a suspicious profile? The irony would be [rightly] outrageous, and policies set around this would render airline security ineffective- "just dress like this, and they aren't allowed to investigate you! Muahahaha...." Oh sure, great idea.
I agree that there are elements of this that seem prejudiced. I can see and sympathise with how terribly inconvenienced this family was, and agree that a simple refund is no compromise for the hours of planning, other reservations and deposits lost, lost opportunity, work scheduling time off, coordinated family planning, and of course - the actual loss of perhaps badly needed vacation time. The family should be compensated for all that, if indeed the investigation was fruitless, if the FBI cleared them, and the airline therefore had no reason to hold them!
Yes, the public-at-large (and therefore passengers-at-large) are likely to be prejudiced. Yes, Arab families might need to mind their P's and Q's a bit more than some other racial groups. But the Arab family themselves even misconstrues the nature of the racism, saying:
"They see one Muslim talking to another Muslim and they automatically assume something wrong is going on."
I don't believe anyone "sees" religion. What does religion look like? But this is the crux of what the middle east (and obviously Arab-Americans also) believe the prejudice to be. There's some ignorance in believing that Americans see "Muslims" rather than "Arabs". It's the fuel behind the anti-American sentiment in the middle east, and that's dangerous. The perception of Americans being Anti-Muslim is unique to Muslims.
Americans are [understandably] frightened of terrorists and terrorism, and [understandably] tune in and maybe develop a little paranoia when they see someone who they believe might fit the visual profile of one...
But that's not religion, or religious-based on what they see with their eyes, and how they react to their inner fear. An Arab-American might be a Buddhist or a Christian, and I don't think anyone would treat him differently. It's the terrorism that breeds fear.
The comfort (and calmness) of the passengers is rightfully a concern of the airline, but the airline needs to manage the expense involved in maintaining that, just as they invest in comfortable seats. The wrongdoing was toppling this family's domino and not taking responsibility for the domino effect.
Keith, they have the freedom to have that discussion because they are in America. Whether or not you have had that discussion or whether or not you have military experience is not at issue here. It's America and we need to start standing up to the idiocy that puts our freedom of speech in jeopardy. I, for one, will be boycotting AirTran.
Yes, it is perfectly "understandable" to be so afraid. Let’s continue to ban all people who look to be of suspicious heritage.
Since Israel is running up the biggest body count at the moment, we better get all the Jews off the planes. Lord knows they can’t wait to kill indiscriminately. Better safe than sorry you know.
Next up, folks you may suspect of being Christians and American. Get those sociopaths off my jet! With a body count of at least 100,000 men, women and children in Iraq, and still more in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and all those other funny named places, you know you are risking death boarding a plane with any of those types.
Oh wait! New Yorkers! Don’t let anyone from New York on either. Timothy McVeigh was born in New York, and we all know the terrible terrorist act he committed in 1995. He was Irish Catholic too. So better keep those terror loving bastard evil types on the ground as well. And don’t forget his partner, Terry Nichols from Michigan. No more lake-dwellers in the air. Think of the children!
This is going to be so great! I’m going to have the entire plane to myself. Once all the big, bad dangerous scary people are banned from my lily white pretty world. I had better say an extra prayer to Ramtha tonight and a few hosannas to the Spaghetti Monster too. Thy will be done. No more dirty, evil people. They all have it coming to them!
Lock everybody up, so that everybody can be safe. It is quite understandable. It really is the only way. I’m so afraid, so afraid, so afraid…
I think escalating the issue is as innocent as the safe seat discussion (afterall we all want to fly with safe passengers), the way AirTran handled the situation is unacceptable.
After FBI clears them, all they needed to do is help a family going to their vacation destination as soon as possible, instead of acting like an overzealous security guard.
It's amazing how easily people can miss the point and get distracted. The first thing a lot of people start doing is defending the airline and the FBI for taking them off the plane...uh, people, that's not what the story is about so stop wasting time defending racial profiling. The issue here is that the airline still refused to let them fly AFTER they were cleared. That's wrong, and everybody knows it. There is absolutely no excuse for it, I don't see how anybody who's paying attention can react to this story in any way other than with outrage.
If you fly, you should know by now, you DO NOT talk about Safest place to fly on a plane. After all teh airline incidents this year, you would be a fool to discuss this on the plane unless it is to a kid that is fearful of flying. If I would of heard their converstation about the safest place to be, I would of reported it to. I don't care what ethnicity they were. If I didn't report it and something did go wrong, I would blame myself for not stating something. With times like they are, there is nothign wrong w/ trying to be safe and cautious.
Now with the airline not allowing them to get back on one of their planes, well that is one of their choices. I do think they should of helped them reschedule and if not on one of their flights, then on another airline. That is the only item the airline is guilty of which is poor customer service.
America is land of the free home of the brave. But we also have another trait, the greater good. In order to protect everyone on the plane, one family was inconvienenced. Think of the tradegy if the plan was hijacked or bombed? They may not have handled it appropriatly afterward, but all in all....
Ohh and well put Geo.
I am glad to see many readers are standing up for the freedom of speech. If we let that go, then how are we any better than any other place? What are we so scared of? There are hundreds of millions of muslims in the world who have nothing to do with terrorism and extremism, and when we attempt to lump them all together, we only hurt ourselves by alienating those who should be our friends.
By now, I would hope that corporations like AirTran would have become more proactive in ending this knee jerk reaction to people who might be Muslim. If authorities arent going to take the lead in educating and calming the public, who will?
To Ash Meer and others:
I travel quite a bit, and I must admit that when I see folks that appear that they could be muslim I pay attention. Facts; the Muslim religion is not a peaceful religion as they claim. Straight from their scriptures deceipt and religious suppression are promoted with the intent to make Islam the ONLY religion. For more facts and information please visit http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/
This is not about racism it is about ensuring freedom. Unfortunately the primary group who's goal is to remove our freedoms are very good at twisting reality to make them appear to be exploited.
I do however agree that perhaps folks around this family on the plane may have over-reacted to their conversation. Who knows, I didn't hear it myself so I cannot really say. Secondly, once the situation was investigated by the proper authorities and the family was cleared, the airline certainly should have better accomodated the situation.
Chase said: "If you fly, you should know by now, you DO NOT talk about Safest place to fly on a plane. "
By what stretch of logic do you make that statement? Please explain to me how talking about the safest place to sit would in any way at all impact on the operation of the plane.
(edited by moderator)
I never saw these many outrage for the countless whose life were shortened in NYC (93 and 01), Bali, Delhi,London,Madrid,Mumbai. There is no freedom of speech or any such thing when one segment is denying the most fundamental right -- freedom to live.
Should the airline wait until after an incident to do something. Authorities should do more and with iron hand to send a strong message. No more. We all have had it enough.
Disgruntled UK fanatics if they are not satisfied with what UK provided them, are welcome to go back to their original place....
If only they had protested against 9/11 and the others, others would be more conciliatory. Because they are silent and are not doing anything about [Muslims] doing these barbaric acts around the world,why should the world show any humanity to them? They should appreciate and thank their stars that FBI did not demand a bribe and cleared them with the airlines. AirTran did the right thing. Cannot wait until after. Prevention is better than cure.
(edited by moderator)
When people draw attention to themselves by the way they dress or act, then they should not be surprised when they get singled out for investigation or further scrutiny. Too many times we see on the news that terrorists who have been living in our country for years turn out to be your neighborhodd convenience store owner or [someone] that keeps to himself. After September 11th, we have to be more careful of these terrorists...even if it is NOT politically correct. If [Muslims] want to be treated like Americans, they need to dress and act like Americans. If they want to act like [Muslims] then let them move back to the Middle East and live there where they will blend in with the rest of the [population]!
Yeah, and don't forget about the Germans...keep all the Germans from the planes, we all know what they did.
Kidding, in fact I'm German. We need to check ourselves that we don't go to extremes. We can not prejudge every muslim. I feel sorry for the family and hope the airline will offer them free flights or something and tell them that they are truly sorry.
Bye
Christoph
AirTran post-investigation is the problem. Even though their investigation brought up nothing, they chose not to rebook this vacationing family in a timely manner. The least the airline can and should do in such a situation is to rebook the family at earliest availability and compensate them for their inconvenience. The family probably had hotel bookings, perhaps resort reservations, and so on, none of which is so easy to cancel. I have flown on this airline in the past, but will avoid it in the future because of how it has chosen to treat my fellow citizens.
The investigation is not the issue. Investigate whoever looks suspicious, regardless of race or religion. Period. Safety must come first. All reports suggest the FBI agents conducted themselves in a professional manner, and it does not seem that the family's grudge is with the FBI.
I think its great that so many people have commented in support of the Muslim family. It just proves that this paranoia... just like the extremism... is something that only a radical fringe participates in. All of us, all of the peace loving, tolerant people in this world, need to speak out against this sort of thing.
BTW, do you really think a terrorist or "towel head" as Gregory says, would draw attention to him/herself by wearing clearly Islamic clothing? Did any of the 9/11 Hijackers wear turbans? or even keffiyehs?
And those of you who keep harping on about Muslims not saying anything against terrorists and violence, need to dig a little deeper. There are many, many, many anti-violence, anti-terrorist, anti-extremist Muslim organizations. You just don't know about them... and that is the responsibility of the media, which continues to broadcast the extremists but has little time for the moderates.
Try watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh3hNVl_Hnc&feature=channel_page
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZF25_DUZc&feature=channel_page
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBBGxgwEdc&feature=related
It looks like the comment ash meer mentioned above has been edited now, but in future anyone attempting to post racist language will be blocked.
All comments are moderated, so chances are nobody will see what you've written anyway.
Apologies if I missed the offensive reference before editing. My thanks to those posters who have contributed constructively to the debate.
I apologize in advance for taking this discussion off topic but I feel very strongly about this as an American.
Ash Meer is correct there are several self proclaimed "anti-violence, anti-terrorist, anti-extremist Muslim organizations." Some of these organizations may be legitimate, however a large amount of them are actually run by extremists attempting to smoke-screen the truth. Many of them claim they are the targets of racism and intolerance when in-fact the true core of their very beliefs are just that. Again I suggest going to http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/ for more information. There are threads on this very topic on the site.
Or try reading the books by Brigit Gabriel. She tells her story of her Christian family being persecuted and forced from her homeland of Lebanon by the Muslim fascists (Title: Because They Hate). She also takes many quotes from the Koran that feed the hate and violence (Title: They Must Be Stopped).
Let's face it, this problem is spreading like a terrible disease and it must be stopped. political Over-correctness is definately not the answer. It is part of the problem.
Thanks!
I think the act was justified, what if they had been real terrorists and done real damage, then the passengers, the airline who chose to ignore what they observed would've bee the bad guys.
Mr. Irfan says he wants an apology for being treated as a "second class citizen", I lived for 20 years in the Middleeast and let me tell you- the muslims there treat every non muslim as a second class citizen in the true sense of the word. In their countries they constantly they remind you ( the children too) that they would kill you as they are commanded and they are being merciful by not doing it now. Political correctness in the Western world is part of the problem why such people demand and get apologies, do you think they apologize to the non muslims in their nations? I think people need to be better educated and understand that Islam is not a religion of peace.
All I can say is I am glad those girls weren't on the Aeropostal flight I took from Caracas to Trinidad when I boarded, because the first thing I said to my friend was "Do you think our seats are safe?" Turns out they were directly underneath an air cooling unit or some such which drenched us after take-off and we had to be re-seated.
Seriously, looking at AirTran's safety record isn't too inspiring. Seven accidents in 12 years, three of them caused by electrical fires and one causing the deaths of 110 passengers should worry anyone.