Monday
Jan052009
Rolling Updates on Israeli Invasion of Gaza (5 January)
Monday, January 5, 2009 at 22:55
Later Updates on the Israeli Invasion of Gaza (7 January)
2:55 a.m. Downtime until the morning. Thanks for all your support and comments today.
2:30 a.m. The lull continues but, as former Israeli Ambassador to the UN Dan Gillerman denies on Al Jazeera that a "National Information Directorate" exists (which is a bold move, given that the NID was "outed" in The Observer of London on Sunday), signs that Israel's information campaign may not be able to hold open the window for military operations very long.
CNN International is not only leading with footage of the hospitals crisis in Gaza but pointedly noted they obtained this footage despite an Israeli-imposed ban on journalists inside the territory.
Israel tried to counter this by playing up their permission for 80 truckloads of aid (just over 1/10 the pre-conflict amount) into southern Gaza on Monday. On this evidence, this won't be enough to hold back mounting criticism.
1:25 a.m. Developments on the diplomatic front: Arab Foreign Ministers have met in New York but it is already clear that a Libyan-sponsored resolution, blocked by the US last weekend, is "dead". Instead, talk is of a French-drafted resolution, which Paris is hoping will be supported by Arab representatives. United Nations sources say this will include calls for an immediate ceasefire, a "humanitarian corridor" for aid, and a "monitoring mechanism". With the manoeuvring needed for any hope of passage, the resolution will not be brought up for a vote on Tuesday.
The Gazan death toll is now at least 548. UN officials in Gaza continue to emphasise that this is "a humanitarian crisis".
11:30 p.m. A bit of a lull in developments on military and diplomatic fronts. Al Jazeera reports that the fighting around Gaza City seems for an elevated area just outside the city which provides a vantage point across northern Gaza.
9:30 p.m. Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin on the current Israeli bombardment: "Almost every building in Israel's definition is a Hamas building."
9:05 p.m. Al Jazeera reports that Israeli forces trying to take strategic overlook looking down on Jabaliya refugee camp, the largest in Gaza.
8:55 p.m. Israeli bloggers claim that the English website of Al Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, has been hacked by Israel. Both English and Arabic sites of Al Qassam are currently offline.
8:50 p.m. CNN is way behind the story. As fighting intensifies around and possibly in Gaza City, this is their website lead: "Hamas militants fired dozens of rockets into southern Israel on Monday despite a 10-day Israeli military campaign that reportedly has left more than 500 Palestinians dead."
8:45 p.m. Arab foreign ministers, who have mostly sat on their hands during this crisis, finally decide they have to make some pretence at action. Palestine Authority, Libyan, Moroccan, and Jordanian ministers are en route to New York.
8:20 p.m. The explosions we noted an hour ago seem to be the "softening-up" artillery shelling for an Israeli advance on Gaza City. The armed wing of Islamic Jihad has told Al Jazeera that Israeli tanks are trying to move into the city, and Israeli sources have confirmed that a "major battle" is taking place on the northern outskirts.
7:20 p.m. Affidavit of "Maher Najjar, Deputy Director, Coastal Municipalities Water Utility" now on-line:
7:15 p.m. As Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin gives live report from Gaza City, massive explosion on-screen behind him. Moyheldin: "There's nowhere for the residents of that area to go....You're seeing a very modern army unleashing weapons on a defenceless population."
7:10 p.m. Most inept disinformation campaign: "Al Jazera" on Twitter --- Sample update: "The leaders of Hamas say 'we will hide as long as needed, our women and children will suffer for us'"
7:05 p.m. Al Jazeera correspondents reporting fireballs and "white explosions" in northern Gaza.
6:30 p.m. Following story in The Times of London that Israel used white phosphorous bombs to cover its ground invasion, Moussa el-Haddad, Gaza resident and father of blogger Laila el-Haddad ("Gazamom"), reports "series of bombs in a row, followed by a large white halo, white smoke; people in vicinity cannot breathe...irritation, and exposed areas [of body] become red, blistered, and itchy".
6 p.m. Hamas spokesman Moussa Abu Marzouk in Damascus to Reuters: Hamas is open to truce in Gaza but only if Israel lifts its blockade:
5:55 p.m. Al-Jazeera reports that the first week of the Gaza offensive has resulted in estimated losses of $1.5 billion.
5 p.m. The statement of Hamas military spokesman Abu Ubeida is now summarised on-line: claims of one Israeli helicopter downed, one tank and one personnel carrier destroyed, one POW taken
4:55 p.m. Al Jazeera reports Al-Awda hospital in northern Gaza hit by two artillery shells
4:35 p.m. The Guardian of London is reporting "gun battles in the streets of Gaza City for the first time this morning" with Israeli troops going house-to-house looking for Hamas fighters
4:20 p.m. Fares Akram, the Gaza correspondent for The Independent of London, writes about his father, killed by an Israeli bomb in northern Gaza on Saturday:
4:15 p.m. Al Jazeera: 70 percent of Gazans without clean drinking water, food distribution suspended in northern Gaza
Hassan Khalaf, director of Al Shifa hospital: "What is happening is genocide."
3:55 p.m. Hamas spokesman Abu Obeida says on Al Aqsa Television said on Monday that the group has "thousands" of fighters and will welcome Israel into Gaza "with fire and iron"
3:03 p.m. Al Jazeera reports eyewitness accounts of Israeli troops demolishing some houses and taking up positions on rooftops of others.
2:42 p.m. Now Livni sets out the rest of her strategy, pointing to restoration of Fatah/Palestinian Authority in Gaza --- Agreement on border crossings (and thus passage of aid) was in 2005 with EU and "legitimate" Palestinian Authority --- Hamas is "illegitimate"
Head of EU delegation: EU "insists on cease-fire at earliest possible moment", not after Israeli military operations --- We have difference in view from Israel on this: "This has to be clearly set."
2:34 p.m. If Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni sets out same line in private that she has just set out in public, there is no hope of any Israeli movement toward cease-fire --- Al Jazeera's Ayman Moyheldin: "Everybody here knows that European Union is peripheral....Israel is satellite of United States"
Livni lays out the political strategy of "moderates" with Israel against "extremists": "Everybody in this region needs to choose where he belongs" --- Hamas is connected with Iran, Damascus, and Hezbollah
2:25 p.m. Press conference of EU delegation and Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni has just started --- Livni: "Situation is that we face terror....Now we need to against terror, against Hamas."
2:22 p.m. Intriguing diplomatic manoeuvre: Speaker of Iranian Parliament Ali Larijani travelling to Damascus to meet Syrian President Bashir al-Assad and Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal.
2:20 p.m. YNet News reports 24 rockets fired at southern Israel with several people lightly wounded.
2:15 p.m. Al Jazeera is focusing on humanitarian crisis and now the increasing number of child fatalities:
[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_gEBO-6VRjs[/youtube]
12:35 p.m United Nations Relief and Works Agency representative tells CNN that 250,000 Gazans have no access to clean water. It is a "rapidly deteriorating situation".
Fuel terminal is due to reopen today. Israel says it is sending in 80 trucks today (compared to 750/day during the truce period).
12:30 p.m. Oxfam tell BBC that they cannot bring food into Gaza because of the security risk.
11:40 a.m. In case you missed it, this report from Israel's Ha'aretz:
11:05 a.m. The United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator has issued an updated report, through 5 p.m yesterday, on the growing humanitarian crisis in Gaza:
10:50 a.m. Yesterday we noted one of few examples of "Palestinian viewpoint" on CNN, the interview with Gazan resident Moussa el-Haddad and his daughter Laila in North Carolina. Interview has just been repeated on CNN International.
Laila el-Haddad is posting on events in Gaza via Twitter.
10:40 a.m. Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz calls for move from military operations to diplomacy:
Meanwhile, Wall Street Journal puts out Israeli public-relations line:
10:20 a.m. A day of activity on the diplomatic front, with French President Nicolas Sarkozy and a Hamas delegation in Cairo and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in New York. A European Union delegation is arriving in Egypt before continuing to Israel and possibly Palestinian territories.
On Sunday, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair met with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Sunday, and Russian envoy Alexander Saltonov met Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni. Neither discussion produced any breakthroughs --- Livni pointedly rejected Saltanov's offer of communication with Hamas via Russia:
10:15 a.m. Israel/Palestine time: Israel has continued its aerial and artillery bombardment in support of its ground offensive, hitting 30 Hamas targets as well as a mosque which the Israeli Defense Forces claimed was storing weapons.
The Gazan death toll is now 521. At least 12 more civilians, including seven members of a family, have been killed in strikes on refugee camps and homes.
The IDF says 30 rockets were fired into southern Israel on Sunday. The number, while less than the number launched at the start of the 10-day conflict, is an increase from the the 20 fired on Saturday.
Most Gazans are confined to homes without electricity and with shortages of food and water.
2:55 a.m. Downtime until the morning. Thanks for all your support and comments today.
2:30 a.m. The lull continues but, as former Israeli Ambassador to the UN Dan Gillerman denies on Al Jazeera that a "National Information Directorate" exists (which is a bold move, given that the NID was "outed" in The Observer of London on Sunday), signs that Israel's information campaign may not be able to hold open the window for military operations very long.
CNN International is not only leading with footage of the hospitals crisis in Gaza but pointedly noted they obtained this footage despite an Israeli-imposed ban on journalists inside the territory.
Israel tried to counter this by playing up their permission for 80 truckloads of aid (just over 1/10 the pre-conflict amount) into southern Gaza on Monday. On this evidence, this won't be enough to hold back mounting criticism.
1:25 a.m. Developments on the diplomatic front: Arab Foreign Ministers have met in New York but it is already clear that a Libyan-sponsored resolution, blocked by the US last weekend, is "dead". Instead, talk is of a French-drafted resolution, which Paris is hoping will be supported by Arab representatives. United Nations sources say this will include calls for an immediate ceasefire, a "humanitarian corridor" for aid, and a "monitoring mechanism". With the manoeuvring needed for any hope of passage, the resolution will not be brought up for a vote on Tuesday.
The Gazan death toll is now at least 548. UN officials in Gaza continue to emphasise that this is "a humanitarian crisis".
11:30 p.m. A bit of a lull in developments on military and diplomatic fronts. Al Jazeera reports that the fighting around Gaza City seems for an elevated area just outside the city which provides a vantage point across northern Gaza.
9:30 p.m. Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin on the current Israeli bombardment: "Almost every building in Israel's definition is a Hamas building."
9:05 p.m. Al Jazeera reports that Israeli forces trying to take strategic overlook looking down on Jabaliya refugee camp, the largest in Gaza.
8:55 p.m. Israeli bloggers claim that the English website of Al Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, has been hacked by Israel. Both English and Arabic sites of Al Qassam are currently offline.
8:50 p.m. CNN is way behind the story. As fighting intensifies around and possibly in Gaza City, this is their website lead: "Hamas militants fired dozens of rockets into southern Israel on Monday despite a 10-day Israeli military campaign that reportedly has left more than 500 Palestinians dead."
8:45 p.m. Arab foreign ministers, who have mostly sat on their hands during this crisis, finally decide they have to make some pretence at action. Palestine Authority, Libyan, Moroccan, and Jordanian ministers are en route to New York.
8:20 p.m. The explosions we noted an hour ago seem to be the "softening-up" artillery shelling for an Israeli advance on Gaza City. The armed wing of Islamic Jihad has told Al Jazeera that Israeli tanks are trying to move into the city, and Israeli sources have confirmed that a "major battle" is taking place on the northern outskirts.
7:20 p.m. Affidavit of "Maher Najjar, Deputy Director, Coastal Municipalities Water Utility" now on-line:
As of last night, there is no electricity at all in Gaza City....Two of the lines feeding electricity to Rafah, one from Israel and one from Egypt, have been damaged.... I have no additional diesel reserves, and I cannot obtain additional diesel right now. The water wells and sewage pumping stations that still have diesel will run out within a few days, others have none.
7:15 p.m. As Al Jazeera's Ayman Mohyeldin gives live report from Gaza City, massive explosion on-screen behind him. Moyheldin: "There's nowhere for the residents of that area to go....You're seeing a very modern army unleashing weapons on a defenceless population."
7:10 p.m. Most inept disinformation campaign: "Al Jazera" on Twitter --- Sample update: "The leaders of Hamas say 'we will hide as long as needed, our women and children will suffer for us'"
7:05 p.m. Al Jazeera correspondents reporting fireballs and "white explosions" in northern Gaza.
6:30 p.m. Following story in The Times of London that Israel used white phosphorous bombs to cover its ground invasion, Moussa el-Haddad, Gaza resident and father of blogger Laila el-Haddad ("Gazamom"), reports "series of bombs in a row, followed by a large white halo, white smoke; people in vicinity cannot breathe...irritation, and exposed areas [of body] become red, blistered, and itchy".
6 p.m. Hamas spokesman Moussa Abu Marzouk in Damascus to Reuters: Hamas is open to truce in Gaza but only if Israel lifts its blockade:
Any initiative not based on ending the aggression, opening the border crossings and an Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip has no chance of succeeding.
5:55 p.m. Al-Jazeera reports that the first week of the Gaza offensive has resulted in estimated losses of $1.5 billion.
5 p.m. The statement of Hamas military spokesman Abu Ubeida is now summarised on-line: claims of one Israeli helicopter downed, one tank and one personnel carrier destroyed, one POW taken
4:55 p.m. Al Jazeera reports Al-Awda hospital in northern Gaza hit by two artillery shells
4:35 p.m. The Guardian of London is reporting "gun battles in the streets of Gaza City for the first time this morning" with Israeli troops going house-to-house looking for Hamas fighters
4:20 p.m. Fares Akram, the Gaza correspondent for The Independent of London, writes about his father, killed by an Israeli bomb in northern Gaza on Saturday:
My father, Akrem al-Ghoul, was no militant. Born in Gaza and educated in Egypt, he was a lawyer and a judge who worked for the Palestinian Authority. After Hamas took over, he quit and turned to agriculture....
As a grieving son, I am finding it hard to distinguish between what the Israelis call terrorists and the Israeli pilots and tank crews who are invading Gaza. What is the difference between the pilot who blew my father to pieces and the militant who fires a small rocket? I have no answers but, just as I am to become a father, I have lost my father.
4:15 p.m. Al Jazeera: 70 percent of Gazans without clean drinking water, food distribution suspended in northern Gaza
Hassan Khalaf, director of Al Shifa hospital: "What is happening is genocide."
3:55 p.m. Hamas spokesman Abu Obeida says on Al Aqsa Television said on Monday that the group has "thousands" of fighters and will welcome Israel into Gaza "with fire and iron"
3:03 p.m. Al Jazeera reports eyewitness accounts of Israeli troops demolishing some houses and taking up positions on rooftops of others.
2:42 p.m. Now Livni sets out the rest of her strategy, pointing to restoration of Fatah/Palestinian Authority in Gaza --- Agreement on border crossings (and thus passage of aid) was in 2005 with EU and "legitimate" Palestinian Authority --- Hamas is "illegitimate"
Head of EU delegation: EU "insists on cease-fire at earliest possible moment", not after Israeli military operations --- We have difference in view from Israel on this: "This has to be clearly set."
2:34 p.m. If Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni sets out same line in private that she has just set out in public, there is no hope of any Israeli movement toward cease-fire --- Al Jazeera's Ayman Moyheldin: "Everybody here knows that European Union is peripheral....Israel is satellite of United States"
Livni lays out the political strategy of "moderates" with Israel against "extremists": "Everybody in this region needs to choose where he belongs" --- Hamas is connected with Iran, Damascus, and Hezbollah
2:25 p.m. Press conference of EU delegation and Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni has just started --- Livni: "Situation is that we face terror....Now we need to against terror, against Hamas."
2:22 p.m. Intriguing diplomatic manoeuvre: Speaker of Iranian Parliament Ali Larijani travelling to Damascus to meet Syrian President Bashir al-Assad and Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal.
2:20 p.m. YNet News reports 24 rockets fired at southern Israel with several people lightly wounded.
2:15 p.m. Al Jazeera is focusing on humanitarian crisis and now the increasing number of child fatalities:
[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_gEBO-6VRjs[/youtube]
12:35 p.m United Nations Relief and Works Agency representative tells CNN that 250,000 Gazans have no access to clean water. It is a "rapidly deteriorating situation".
Fuel terminal is due to reopen today. Israel says it is sending in 80 trucks today (compared to 750/day during the truce period).
12:30 p.m. Oxfam tell BBC that they cannot bring food into Gaza because of the security risk.
11:40 a.m. In case you missed it, this report from Israel's Ha'aretz:
The ground invasion was preceded by large-scale artillery shelling from around 4 P.M....Hundreds of shells were fired, including cluster bombs aimed at open areas.
11:05 a.m. The United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator has issued an updated report, through 5 p.m yesterday, on the growing humanitarian crisis in Gaza:
It is essential that patients and ambulances are able to reach hospitals, that agencies are able to access warehouses in order to conduct distributions. Currently movement within the Strip is severely challenged.
10:50 a.m. Yesterday we noted one of few examples of "Palestinian viewpoint" on CNN, the interview with Gazan resident Moussa el-Haddad and his daughter Laila in North Carolina. Interview has just been repeated on CNN International.
Laila el-Haddad is posting on events in Gaza via Twitter.
10:40 a.m. Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz calls for move from military operations to diplomacy:
French President Nicolas Sarkozy's visit to Jerusalem today provides Israel with an exit ramp from the fighting against Hamas in Gaza. Sarkozy proposes declaring a lull in combat, which would test whether Hamas would agree to halt firing rockets. Israel would do well to respond affirmatively to the proposal, which protects its right to respond with force in the event the Palestinians continue firing from the Gaza Strip.
Meanwhile, Wall Street Journal puts out Israeli public-relations line:
10:20 a.m. A day of activity on the diplomatic front, with French President Nicolas Sarkozy and a Hamas delegation in Cairo and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in New York. A European Union delegation is arriving in Egypt before continuing to Israel and possibly Palestinian territories.
On Sunday, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair met with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Sunday, and Russian envoy Alexander Saltonov met Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni. Neither discussion produced any breakthroughs --- Livni pointedly rejected Saltanov's offer of communication with Hamas via Russia:
We are serious in our intention to harm Hamas and we have no intention to give them legitimize them and pass messages on to them. We have nothing to discuss with Hamas.
10:15 a.m. Israel/Palestine time: Israel has continued its aerial and artillery bombardment in support of its ground offensive, hitting 30 Hamas targets as well as a mosque which the Israeli Defense Forces claimed was storing weapons.
The Gazan death toll is now 521. At least 12 more civilians, including seven members of a family, have been killed in strikes on refugee camps and homes.
The IDF says 30 rockets were fired into southern Israel on Sunday. The number, while less than the number launched at the start of the 10-day conflict, is an increase from the the 20 fired on Saturday.
Most Gazans are confined to homes without electricity and with shortages of food and water.
tagged Abu Obeida, Al-Aqsa Television, Alexander Saltonov, Ali Larijani, Ayman Mohyeldin, BBC, Bashir al-Assad, CNN, Ehud Olmert, European Union, Fares Akram, Gaza, Ha'aretz, Hamas, Hassan Khalaf, Israel, Israel Defense Forces, Khaled Mashaal, Laila el-Haddad, Maher Najiar, Mahmoud Abbas, Moussa Abu Marzouk, Moussa el-Haddad, Nicolas Sarkozy, Oxfam, Palestine, The Guardian, The Independent, Tony Blair, Twitter, Tzipi Livni, United Nations, United Nations and Relief Works Agency, Wall Street Journal in Middle East & Iran
Abu Obeida, Al-Aqsa Television, Alexander Saltonov, Ali Larijani, Ayman Mohyeldin, BBC, Bashir al-Assad, CNN, Ehud Olmert, European Union, Fares Akram, Gaza, Ha'aretz, Hamas, Hassan Khalaf, Israel, Israel Defense Forces, Khaled Mashaal, Laila el-Haddad, Maher Najiar, Mahmoud Abbas, Moussa Abu Marzouk, Moussa el-Haddad, Nicolas Sarkozy, Oxfam, Palestine, The Guardian, The Independent, Tony Blair, Twitter, Tzipi Livni, United Nations, United Nations and Relief Works Agency, Wall Street Journal in Middle East & Iran
Reader Comments (30)
It's really sad Palestinians didn't stop Hamas when they had the chance to do so.
Hamas has been throwing rockets even BEFORE the blockade was imposed. The blockade came AFTER not before the rockets started.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that hopefully will be stopped by Israel.
Hamas is hiding among civilians and it's because they didn't do anything to stop them earlier that they are suffering from Hamas's actions now.
Hamas is fighting for their own land back, and u westeners have created amazing mentality, u call Hamas terrorist? I call U ppl terrorist becuz u ppl r terrifying innocent ppl of Palestine, and these Israilis r supported by so called developed nations, u r just killing Humanity
Hamas is intentionally shooting missiles from inside civilian neighborhoods, and they say that they are not going to stop. A country has a supreme duty and obligation to the security of its citizens. Therefore, the operation must go on until the Hamas has no more offensive weapons.
The Hamas is violating every article of the Geneva convention. They have not allowed the red cross to visit Gilad Shalit. We can expect them to go on doing it, because no one will call them to order. Therefore, the operation must go on until Israel frees Gilad Shalit.
25% of casualties are civilians? 75% are terrorists. On the other side of the equation, 100% of casualties of Qassam and Grad missiles are civilians, as these missiles' sole purpose is against civilians.
Moderator's Note- anyone posting comments using multiple aliases will have their comments removed.
(Ezaz Ahmed/Anonymous- this is a last warning.)
Thanks.
Ever since Israel pulled out from the Gaza strip, Hamas has been amassing weapons whose sole purpose is to kill civilians. They are not very successful, granted, but no nation can live with another people hurling missiles at them day and night. We had a so called "cease fire" which the Hamas refused to continue.
They want Israel to open the gates, but the gates were closed when Hamas used them to bring suicide bombers into Israel.
Israel can't go on supplying them with electricity and water used to create more bombs. If they fire missiles, Israel has to stop it, as it seems no one else will.
Live and let live. I agree, Chelsea. If Hamas stopped bombing Israel, and had returned Gilad Shalit, I assume Israel would stop bombing them.
What happening in the Middle east is a result of the Israeli oppression, everyone in the Middle east want peace, Lebanese, Palastinians and Israelis ( exept the radicals), we had enough of bloodshed, massacres, executed mainly on the Palastinians with Israeli Criminals by American weapons. What's going on in Gaza is a shame, is a Holocaust. The History will witness and record that what is happening now, will be equaled to what the Nazis did.
They can't just stop Hamas and Hezbollah, because they represent the people's pride & freedom. They are what the western world consider as Terrorists, in the middle east, they are simply the last line of defence against the israeli & American who are supporting the what is called " the moderate Arabian Regimes", these regimes are killing their people in the name of fighting terrorism.
The problem will not be solved with war, all the parties should sit together and agree on a solution. The World can not take any more massacres!
Palestine NEVER was Arab land - Jews always were the majority - even in 19 century under Ottoman power. The so-called palestinians are arabs which came to Palestine in 1917-1940 from Syria,Jordane and other Arab countries because there was JOB - for Britons and Jews. So all Arab pretensions for Israel land are ridiculous and criminal at the least.
(deleted by moderator --- suspected hoax comment)
It is wrong to assume that the United States can play/control Israel like a puppet on strings. It doesn't have that kind of leverage. Israel will act against US wishes if it feels it is necessary. Its foreign and security policies are not drafted in Washington and posted to Tel Aviv. This was true in the 1970s and it is true today. The State Department has acknowledged it (even if only privately). I have pages of the stuff myself.
Of course europeans will jump at any chance to snipe at Israel but the argument that Israel does not own the land is hollow as its been there for thousands of years prior to europes nation states. But there is not one EU nation that has the military nor the will power to fight Israel - both because the EU is wrongfully arrogant and because Israel could destroy the entire EU in a military conflict.
Hamas is a terrorist organization and its actions are irresponsible and reckless. Israel's response is to establish a deterrence from making it so painful for Hamas as to insure it will not attack as such again without devestating consequences - as it did with Hezbolah in 2006. I do not see any more rocket attacks from southern Lebanon.
If you need some history lessons for Europe's list of illegal actions against other peoples, here are two---the UK: Irish genocide.. later they needed Clinton to save them from the IRA bombings and assasinations and then the whindging of the antipodeans in its lost empire oh and can you say " Dunkirk"--then secondly there's Germany...well, enough said.
Semi-national movements whose expertise is bombing civilians and sending suicide bombers are called terrorists all over the world. Both Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations by this definition.
Hezbollah works from Lebanon. According to the UN resolution Israel has exited Lebanon and all territorial disputes were settled to the agreement of both Lebanon and Israel. Thus, there was no justification to the kidnapping and killing of 2 Israeli soldiers 3 years ago. This was done in order to provoke war, and the result, while regrettable, was only to be expected.
Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip 3 years ago. During these 3 years, the Hamas has fired in excess of 3000 missiles into Israel.
Enough is enough. The Hamas must be stopped and disbanded. If Nizar wants Hamas as his leaders, let them find an unoccupied planet and settle there.
Kamen56- Your wild assertions are not backed up by historical evidence. Jews were clearly the majority up to the 1st century- but most historians conclude that they have not been since. The Roman Emperor Hadrian finally utterly destroyed Jerusalem about 135AD, rebuilt it under another name, and for hundreds of years no Jew was permitted to enter it. The Moslem expansion of the 7th century further cemented Arab dominance.
See: Sergio DellaPergola, drawing on the work of Bachi (1975),
'Demography in Israel/Palestine: Trends, Prospects and Policy Implications'
I don't think that any vaguely credible historian e.g. Bernard Lewis, Alexander Scholch, Justin McCarthy, Howard Sacher has argued that Jews were anything other than a minority for at least the last 1500 years.
I'd be very interested in where you are getting your statistics from. Historians are even divided on the extent of Arab immigration in the period you state.
For example, the Israeli historian Yehoshua Porath (a supporter of Likud and Netanyahu) wrote that the notion of "large-scale immigration of Arabs from the neighboring countries" is a myth "proposed by Zionist writers".
It is interesting to note that Howard Sacher, a respected American historian of Israel, who does argue that Arab immigration was significantly due to Jewish job creation, concludes that Arabs were already in the majority.
Shimon,
Muslims will never accept a Jewish at their front door, even if their governments do. I have a solution of my own, but I know it would never become a reality. If only the American people were willing to donate a small piece of land to the Jews, and if only Israelis were willing to accept such an offer. A 'New Israel' somewhere out in America's Great Basin, where it would exist as a land-locked Jewish nation-state....in a desert zone. It could be located anywhere from western Colorado to central Nevada. Israel is such a small piece of land. Several hundred Israels could fit inside the US. I know you won't like this idea, but it's better than the present location -- the most disputed piece of land on the planet. I understand the importance of this sacred land, but is it really worth the continuing deaths and bloodshed (both sides)?
The survival of the Jewish nation is remarkable. 4,000 years, and you will probably survive for another 4,000. Just look at the all the other nations that fell into extinction -- powerful, thriving nations that held territory!! -- Babylonians, Hittites, Phoencians, and others. They are long gone - EXTINCT. The Jews soldiered on despite overwhelming odds. If the Jews can continue on (stateless) for 4,000 years, up to 1948, then they can continue on for 4,000 more -- with or without a state. I know we don't want another Holocaust. I have Jewish roots. My great uncle and great grandfather survived Dachau. I used to visit my great uncle regularly as a kid. I was always told never to bring it up. I visited Dachau in 1990. My grandmother fled to England in 1936, shortly after the Nuremberg laws. My great grandmother (not a Jew) managed to get all of them out of Germany. She put my great uncle on a boat to Shanghai, where he spent the next 8 years repairing bicycles. We think she had a contact in the SS. Anyway, look at what is happening in Europe. Growing anti-semitism in Europe, and the increased immigration from Muslim countries is fueling it! They wave Holocaust signboards and pro-Jihad signboards in London and all over Europe!
This may sound like a silly post to put in the comment box, but all the madness puts a whole range of thoughts and ideas in one's head. Some of them may sound absured (the Great Basin idea), but when it comes to people and lives and of future generations...it's not worth it. Even if the land is sacred.
How can a 5 year old child deserve this?. There are 500 people killed with over 100 little girls and boys dead plus over 500 childs in the hospital with horrible wounds and you say that they had it comming because they tolerated Hamas. Why do not let international press in? and let them decide on their own safety. This is just a massacre and all the world is seeing it like that.
Who said that there are 100 little girls and boys dead? Hamas? Hamas also says that he is winning the Israeli army, and bombed Israeli tanks and killed many Israeli soldiers, but that's a lie.
As far as I'm concerned, Hamas is manipulating the world, It is trying to attack Israel psychologically, to make Israelis fear of it and pressure it's government to stop it's attacks against those terrorists. I know that there were hurt children during Cast Lead Operation, but I don't think that the percentage is as high as Hamas claims. I believe that Hamas is lying trying to manipulate everybody in the world.
Reply to Shimon
What do you the army who bombing unarmed women & Children? Heroes? Freedom fighters? The whole issue is wrong, as Dave said, if the Israelis want a secure land, they can find one in USA, what about Alaska? it's cool enough. I never said that I want Hammas to be my leaders, but they are better then submitting to the Israeli occupation, where i am 100 % sure that Human right laws will be broken. And do you think that the Israelis would like any other people? It's written in their laws that non-israelis should be slaves to serve them. Mr. Shimon, i am sure you missread my last sentence in my first blog, we want peace, we don't want any more killings!!
Quoting Nazir -- "The whole issue is wrong, as Dave said, if the Israelis want a secure land, they can find one in USA, what about Alaska? it’s cool enough."
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You want us to offer the Israelis a place in Palin country, huh? You must really hate those people. Geez.............
I was thinking central or eastern Nevada. Somewhere between the towns of Eureka and Austin.
Wondering if Nizar's mention of Alaska was a reference to this novel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yiddish_Policemen's_Union
First Dave, my name is Nizar. And about moving them to Alaska, or anywhere else in America or the world, was only an example or a joke about re-settling the Israelis. I say there is no way that man can remove the israelis from Palastine. they are born there, well most of them. What they should do is to just stop killing the people arround them in order to stop the surrounding nations from hating them. Imagine that Canada or Mexico attacked USA again, would do you think that the Americans will just laugh and tell them to shoot them more? What i am trying to say, that Hammas is a result of the Israeli occupation and innocent people's massacre. This war is not the first, Hammas was grounded in the first place because Israel didn't stop killing the Palastinians. I don't say that Hammas is doing the right thing by killing the israeli civilians. They are just reacting to the israeli actions. Beside someone said that Arabs came to Jerusalem to find work, arabs existed in Palastine for the last 1,500 years. History tells these facts, who do you think fought the Crusaders, for your information, they were arabs from the 3 religions, Jews, christians & muslims. Yes my friends, it's a fact, these 3 together fought the crusaders invasion. Jews and arabs have blood ties, they share the same ancestors, they both are descendents of Abraham.
I'm sorry for getting your name wrong.
The Crusades of 1095 were an attempt to liberate the lands and peoples whom the Muslims attacked and subjugated. Those territories had been captured by the Muslims.
To reach the right conclusions you have to move from the right start point.
the start af all this was not Hamas's Rockets the real start was :
1. announcing israel on the land of palestine..
2.israel ignoring all the U:N decesion to leave the terratories which was occupied after 1976 and return back to 1948 boarders
3. Israel ignoring the decesion of the LAHAI INTERNATIONAL COURT to stop building the illegal seperation wall.
4. Israel and usa not accepting the results of the fair elections in gaza which has choosen hamas, so they started punish them by making gaza a big prison with no food no gas ......( and the rest is well known) for three long years and finally by striking them and killing their hungry children
SO EVERYONE WHO IS BLAMING HAMAS ;PLEASE MOVE ON FROM THE RIGHT START POINT TO REACH THE RIGHT CONCLUSIONS !
(deleted by moderator)
(deleted by moderator --- posting by user with multiple names)
To repeat what Mike Dunn said yesterday, posts by users with multiple usernames will not be allowed.
I like the idea of a new Israel in the United States of America...problem solved...I don't think the world having witnessed what Israel has done in the Middle-East can allow the country to remain...